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[The deposition of Robert (Robin) Jaeger follows:]

EXECUTIVE SESSION

COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT,
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

DEPOSITION OF: ROBERT (ROBIN) JAEGER

Washington, DC.

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 11, 1997

The deposition in the above matter was held in Room 2247, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 9 a.m.

Appearances:

Staff Present for the Government Reform and Oversight Committee: James C. Wilson, Senior Investigative Counsel; Robert J. Dold, Jr., Investigative Counsel; and Michael J. Yeager, Minority Counsel.

For MR. JAEGER:

TIMOTHY S. ELLIOTT, ESQ.

Deputy Associate Solicitor - General Law
Department of the Interior

Office of the Solicitor

1849 C Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20240

Mr. WILSON. Let's go on the record.

Good morning, Mr. Jaeger.

The WITNESS. Good morning.

Mr. WILSON. On behalf of the members of the Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, thank you very much for appearing here today. This proceeding is known as a deposition. The person transcribing this proceeding is a House reporter. I will now request that Robin Butler, who is a notary public, place you under oath.

THEREUPON, ROBERT (ROBIN) JAEGER, a witness, was called for examination by Counsel, and after having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

Mr. WILSON. For the record, I would like to note those who are present at the beginning of this deposition.

My name is James Wilson. I am the designated Majority counsel. Accompanying me today is Robert Dold. Mr. Michael Yeager is the designated counsel for the Minority. Mr. Jaeger is represented by Mr. Timothy Elliott.

Although this proceeding is being held in a somewhat informal atmosphere, because you have been placed under oath, your testimony here today has the same force and effect as if you were testifying before the committee or in a courtroom. If I ask you about conversations you have had in the past and you are unable to recall the exact words used in that conversation or those conversations, you may state that you are unable to recall the exact words and then you may give me the gist or substance of any such conversations to the best of your recollection. If you recall only part of a conversation or only part of an event, please give me your best recollection of that part of the conversation or that part of the event that you do recall. If I ask you whether you have any information about a particular subject and you have overheard other persons conversing with each other regarding that subject or have seen correspondence or documentation about that subject, please tell me that you do have such information and indicate the source from which you have derived that information.

Majority and Minority committee counsel will ask you questions regarding the subject matter under our investigation. Minority counsel will ask questions after Majority counsel has finished. After Minority counsel has completed questioning you, a new round of questioning may begin.

Members of Congress who wish to ask questions will be afforded an immediate opportunity to ask their questions. When they are finished, committee counsel will resume questioning. I am not aware of anybody's interest in coming today, but occasionally people do come in. As I say, when they do, we suspend and allow them to ask whatever questions they have.

Pursuant to committee's rules, you are allowed to have an attorney present to advise you of your rights. Any objection raised during the course of the deposition shall be stated for the record. If Mr. Jaeger is instructed not to answer a question or refuses to answer a question, Majority and Minority counsel will confer to determine whether the refusal is proper. If Majority and Minority counsel agree that a question is proper, the witness will be asked to answer the question. If an objection is not withdrawn, the Chairman or a member designated by the Chairman may decide whether the objection is proper.

This deposition is considered as taken in executive session of the committee, which means that it may not be made public without the consent of the committee pursuant to clause 2(k)(7) of House Rule XI.

Finally, no later than 5 days after your testimony is transcribed and you have been notified that your transcript is available, you may submit suggested changes to the Chairman. Typically, the transcript is available for your review at the committee offices. That obviously, in your case, will work a hardship and we will work out the best way to get around the hardship. Generally, the transcript of the deposition is available within a couple of days of the deposition being taken. In this case, I will call Mr. Elliott immediately and discuss with him what is most convenient for you. I anticipate what we can do is simply send you a copy; you can forward the copy to Mr. Jaeger.

Mr. ELLIOTT. That is fine.

Mr. WILSON. And confer with him as appropriate.

Committee staff may make any typographical and technical changes requested by you. Substantive changes or modifications to the deposition transcript submitted by you must be accompanied by a letter requesting the changes and a statement of your reason for each change. Such a letter must be signed by you and would be included as an appendices to the transcript of the deposition.

Do you understand everything we have gone over so far yes?

Mr. WILSON. If you don't understand a question, please say so and I will repeat it or rephrase it so that you do understand the question. Do you understand that you should tell me that you don't understand my question, if that is the case? The WITNESS. Yes, I do.

Mr. WILSON. The reporter will be taking down everything we say and will make a written record of the deposition. Consequently, please give verbal, audible answers in order to assist the House reporter. If you can't hear me, please say so, and I'll repeat the question or have the reporter read the question to you.

Do you understand that?

The WITNESS. Yes, I do.

Mr. WILSON. Your testimony is being taken under oath as if we were in court and if you answer a question it will be assumed that you understood the question and that the answer was intended to be responsive to it.

Do you understand that?

The WITNESS. Yes, I do.

Mr. WILSON. It is my understanding that you are here voluntarily. I thank you for appearing here voluntarily.

Do you have any questions about either the technical aspects of this deposition or the substance before we begin the proceeding?

The WITNESS. No, I do not.

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Elliott?

Mr. ELLIOTT. We have no formal opening statement, but I would only ask, as I have done before in others, that we refrain from delving into the litigation that is ongoing at this time, in view of the fact that we don't want to compromise the government's position in that litigation.

Mr. YEAGER. This deposition relates to the Interior Department's denial of application by three Indian tribes to place off-reservation land into trust for development of a casino in Hudson, Wisconsin. After the Interior Department rejected the request, the applicant tribes alleged that opponents of the casino project, other Indian tribes, improperly influenced the decision through contacts with Democratic Party and administration officials. These allegations are the subject of a well-publicized lawsuit pending in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin.

The Majority is aware that the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee has already investigated this matter. It has already interviewed and deposed dozens of witnesses and taken public testimony from those people central to any allegations of impropriety.

For example, the Senate took public_testimony from Secretary of the Interior Bruce Babbitt, former DNC Chairman Donald Fowler, lobbyist Paul Eckstein and former Deputy Chief of Staff Harold Ickes. The Attorney General is looking into this

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