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I was delighted with the Chairman's fraternal rebuke to Professor Münsterberg, nevertheless I was extremely glad to hear what Professor Münsterberg said, because he reminded you of some facts, which, in a meeting like this where we are all very enthusiastic and very much of one mind, we are apt to forget-he reminded you, for instance, that in a meeting which wishes to do anything practical, the word "disarmament" should never be spoken at all. (Applause.) I have been around Europe and I have talked in every capital of Europe, and I came to hate the word disarmament as a devil hates holy water (laughter), because the moment you talk about disarmament, people think you are going to ask them to disband their armies, and stand defenseless against their neighbors whom they do not trust. I suppose no government in the world is going to propose this at the Hague Conference, no government in the world, certainly not our own, is going to be so foolish as to run its head against a stone wall by proposing that any power should disarm. Now, you don't like that, some of you (laughter), but it is a hard, cold fact. What are we, then, going to propose?-not that there should be any disarmaments, not that there should be any reduction of armaments; but simply that we should attempt to agree to prevent the continual, the mad, reckless increase of armaments which goes on year after year. (Applause.)

It was proposed at the last Hague Conference that the Powers should arrest their armaments; everyone agreed that it was very necessary, but they could not agree as to the form in which it was to be arranged, so it was referred to each of the governments to decide, to discuss, and to arrange. Ever since, the cost of armaments has gone up steadily, averaging for the last eight years fifty million dollars a year increase over and above that which was regarded in 1898 as an intolerable burden.

Professor Münsterberg said that the Germans regarded the cost of the army and navy as insurance against fire risks. I agree, but is it rational that when a fire risk has gone down, the insurance premium should go up? (Laughter-applause.) Are we not as business men, practical men, entitled to ask that we should at least discuss whether in proportion as the world grows more peaceful, we might not at least arrange to stand by the maximum we have at present arrived at and agree for the term of the next five years that we will not exceed it? Believe me,

for two months there has been very little else debated and argued between the great powers of Europe, except whether or not we should have permission even to discuss that, because Professor Münsterberg's country did not think it was a practical proposition. Now, so much for argument.

There is another question. Professor Münsterberg told us, and I believe, quite truly, that the German Emperor is a friend of peace. I know that when I was in Germany I found the opinion of the Germans upon that subject absolutely unanimous ; and many of the Germans with whom I talked admitted it ruefully, not liking it at all, saying that they thought that their Emperor's peace-loving character was so well known by other nations that they traded upon it. (Laughter.) But all the same, Professor Münsterberg will admit that twelve months ago this very time there was hardly a Frenchman in all France who did not open his newspaper every morning expecting to find that the peace-loving Emperor had landed his indomitable army across the French frontiers. And why was there that dread? Why was there that great fear? I was talking to the most capable Foreign Minister of the German Empire. He admitted it was perfectly true the French did fear war was coming with Germany, that the German troops were meditating full march on Paris at any moment; but he said there was no ground for that because he said he had been with the Emperor during the whole of that three months and never by word or sign did the Emperor ever show to even his most trusted Minister that he regarded war with France a possibility. (Applause.)

If there could be that great misunderstanding and dread, that great horror of a possible war, which was not by any means confined to France, but existed in many other countriesMy time is up. (Cries of "Go on! Go on!")

MR. CARNEGIE:

That man Stead could keep you here an hour; he is wonderful, and he has been speaking ever since he landed in this country; and some of us, careful of his health, are taking care to limit him. Besides, we have other speakers and I would like very much to hear him myself, but I must really ask you to allow the

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From Stereograph, Copyright 1907, by Underwood & Underwood, New York

W. T. STEAD

DR. JOHN RHYS

COL. SIR ROBERT CRANSTON

SIR WILLIAM HENRY PREECE, F.R.S.

SIR ROBERT BALL, F.R.S.

other speakers to speak; it is now after 10 o'clock, and all wellregulated families should have the heads of the families at home before II o'clock. We will now hear—

MR. STEAD :

Mr. Carnegie, just one word more: I have obeyed and am always ready to obey the ruling of the Chair, but I wish to make a suggestion to the Chair that when he exercises his rulings and insists, quite properly, upon the time table being adhered to, he should not apply it so hard upon me as to put it upon his regard for my health; and I have further to say to you that as he has done so, I only think it right to make this fair offer to him and this meeting, that after you have gotten through with the other speakers to-night, if you would like to stop and hear me, I am game to speak as long as you will listen.

MR. CARNEGIE:

Mr. Stead is going to have numerous opportunities to speak at other meetings; we are holding him in reserve.

I have now the honor of calling upon Colonel Sir Robert Cranston, Ex-Lord Provost of Edinburgh. You have not heard one word from Scotland to-night. You have heard from Germany, and you have heard from England, and now you will listen for a few minutes to a word from Scotland, so I call upon the next speaker, Sir Robert Cranston, of Edinburgh, to speak for ten minutes.

SIR ROBERT CRANSTON:

MR. PRESIDENT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN: I would very much rather that Mr. Stead had gone on. He plays the game so well that there is no chance for a serious man to come in. I can say that to him, and he won't be offended; I know all about him; but it is hardly fair that after you have heard from all the other countries in the world, except Scotland, that I should come in at the tail end, after every argument has been given and everything has been said that could possibly be said.

I remember the story of a gentleman dying and leaving his family of seven to select from what he had left, beginning with the eldest. I am exactly in the position of the seventh, who found very little left to select from. I think I speak pretty well for the nation to which I belong, perhaps the nation in the world

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