363

WESTMEATH COMMITTEE, Feb. 27, 1871.

1

[It was perhaps not to be expected that the measures of 1869 and 1870 should operate all at once. Still less, however, was it to be expected that the necessity for coercive legislation arising immediately afterwards should not eagerly be turned to good account by a Parliamentary Opposition. Accordingly, when the Marquis of Hartington 1 early in the session of 1871 moved 'That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of Westmeath and certain parts adjoining, of Meath and King's County, the nature, extent, and effect of a certain unlawful combination and confederacy existing therein, and the best means of suppressing the same,' it was very natural that Mr. Disraeli should comment on the proposal as he does. It is needless to say with what delight this speech was listened to by his own side of the House; it being generally remarked that he was regaining his old brilliancy, which, until he spoke on the 24th on the Black Sea Conference, was thought to be under an eclipse.]

HE noble lord commenced his observations by confessing

the sentiment of dismay with which he rose to make the proposition with which he has terminated his speech, and I quite sympathised with the noble lord. I thought it was a sentiment most natural, and it did him great honour, in my opinion, to be under its influence at that moment. Considering how the House of Commons has passed the last two years, the sacrifices which have been proposed and which have been submitted to, the unceasing vigilance, the teeming device, the constant energy, the great exertions that never have been wanting; remembering how legislation has been carried on, to the exclusion of all subjects of imperial interest but those which related to Ireland; how England has submitted to the postponement of measures of great importance, and Scotland has given up that darling scheme of national education which

1 Became Secretary for Ireland in Dec. 1870.

we have found so interesting and entertaining this evening; and viewing what apparently is the result of two years of constant legislation by a Government elected for the purpose of introducing an entirely new system in the administration of Ireland, and which cannot for a moment pretend that it has not been supported generously by the House in any of the measures which it deemed necessary to consummate this great end, I can quite understand, or, at least, I could quite understand until the closing observations of the noble lord, that he rose under a feeling of some dismay.

But, according to the noble lord, in his concluding sentence, there is no reason whatever why he should be dismayed; the state of Ireland at present, in the instance of this disturbed county and the adjoining districts, is exactly that which we ought to have expected. He tells us that religious equality, that agricultural equity-great ends which have been attained under his administration-were never for a moment to be counted on as a means by which a state of society such as he now introduces to our notice could be ameliorated. If that be the case, why should the noble lord be dismayed? The noble lord should pluck up his courage. If he is to succeed in the singular proposition he has made to-night, he should have come forward, not as a daunted, but rather as a triumphant minister. He should have said, 'It is true that murder is perpetrated with impunity; it is true that life is not secure, and that property has no enjoyment and scarcely any use; but this is nothing when in the enjoyment of abstract political justice-and by the labours of two years we have achieved that for Ireland. Massacres, incendiarism, and assassinations are things scarcely to be noticed by a minister, and are rather to be referred to the inquiry of a committee.'

Now, after the somewhat perplexing address of the Chief Secretary of the Lord Lieutenant, let me recall the attention. of the House to the position in which honourable members find themselves to-night, after the notice which was given forty-eight hours ago. Suddenly the Secretary of the Lord Lieutenant comes down and announces the appointment of a secret committee to consider the state of a portion of Ireland,

ing the same.

and not only to consider its state of combination and confederacy against the law, but also to devise means for suppressThat was the way in which the question was put before us. Now, however, we are told it is not to be a secret committee; but have the Government well considered the effect of making such an announcement to the world, and expressing an opinion that it was necessary to have a secret committee to consider the condition of a portion of Ireland? Why, the telegraphic cable must have flashed the announcement to America forty-eight hours ago, and what do you think must have been the effect of it on those treasonable confederacies which are always in action-and are at this moment in action, as we know—against the authority of England? What must have been the effect of such an announcement? It must have produced a conviction in their minds that the Government found the whole state of society in Ireland undermined, and that the authority of the Queen was in imminent danger. To announce forty-eight hours after this that it is not the intention of the Government to propose a secret committee, indicates a tone of levity in dealing with a great question which ought not to pass unnoticed.

Surely a minister who proposes a secret committee on the condition of Ireland, by that proposition alone incurs the gravest responsibility. Now, to-night we find it is not to be a secret committee, and then, to our great surprise, we find that it is also a committee which is not to devise means for remedying the evils complained of. Then what is the committee to do? Observe the description of this district of Ireland, where there are not only these evils, but these spreading evils-observe the description of it given by the Minister. It is brief and terse in the extreme. He tells us it is intolerable. He tells us the state of Ireland is intolerable (No, no!)—that the state of a great portion of Ireland is intolerable, and therefore will want inquiry (No, no!). Well, that the state of a county in Ireland is intolerable. Is it reduced to that? Is a county in a state so intolerable that you must come to a senate to ask for a committee to inquire into it? Can you not get out of the difficulty without coming to the House of Commons, and

asking it to appoint a secret committee to devise means to govern a county?

Well, Sir, secrecy is given up and devising means is given up; so the question is, 'What is this committee to do?' Every impartial member on either side of the House must have felt the difficulty, and asked himself that question. Why, the Secretary of the Lord Lieutenant gave us ample explanations as to the various means by which he might have gained complete information on all points which the Government required to guide them in order to meet the evils of this district; and, indeed, under the very Act which we passed last year, they have powers-extraordinary powers; so that, for instance, if there is a felony committed in a district, they can summon witnesses before them and examine them, even although such witnesses may not be connected with the felony. Why, what power has a committee of the House of Commons compared with this power? I would impress on the House the inexpediency of assenting to a committee which is to relieve the Government from their responsibility as an executive.

But the noble lord, who says he will never appear in the sheet of a penitent and holding the taper of remorse, told us to-night that, whatever the original intentions of the Government were, it is not their intention now to ask this committee to devise any means to suppress the evils of which they complain, and which they describe as intolerable. I would say myself at once that, so far as I am concerned, I am perfectly prepared to support the Government in any demand they may make upon their own responsibility to terminate an evil which they describe, and I believe justly describe, as intolerable. There is no need to enter into an antiquated history of the horrors of Ribandism to induce the House of Commons to come to this conclusion. We know the evil. We have long heard of the evil and of the perpetration of these new crimes and these new horrors; and I was only astonished that in Her Majesty's gracious Speech from the Throne they were not referred to with more distinctness. We have recently had from the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland an announcement with reference to them which prepared us for the legislation which I suppose

the Government will come forward and propose; and if the Government would come forward and propose a remedy, I think I might venture to answer for every gentleman on this side of the House that he would give it an unflinching support.

The evil is intolerable and ought to be put down, and we are prepared to support Her Majesty's Government if, in the exercise of their constitutional functions, they come forward and propose a measure instead of asking the House of Commons to enter upon an inquiry into the matter. The matter is urgent, and the business of a committee is necessarily always long. A committee-to do what ?-to examine officers of the Government, to examine magistrates, to call for information from a miscellaneous multitude of witnesses? Why, a committee of inquiry for such purposes is always in existence. It is the cabinet of the Queen. They have the best information, and they are selected men, who are supposed to be most competent to decide on that information; and on the results of their deliberations and on their convictions they ought to introduce a measure and not move for a committee, when the state of an Irish county is intolerable. Let the standing orders be suspended if the case is urgent.

The noble lord has made some reference, from that richness of precedent with which he has been crammed on this occasion, to what occurred in 1852, and in the midst of the distress of this regenerating Government of Ireland, supported by a hundred legions, and elected by an enthusiastic people, in order to terminate the grievances of that country and secure its contentment and tranquillity, he must needs dig up our poor weak Government of 1852, and say, 'There was Mr. Napier, your Attorney-General, he moved for a committee, and you were a member of that cabinet.' If I had had a majority of one hundred behind my back I would not have moved for that committee. I did the best I could, and I passed a good Bill by a respectable majority.

But was the situation in which I was placed similar to the situation of Her Majesty's present ministers? Look for a moment to the relations which this Government bear to the House of Commons with regard to the administration of Ireland.