whether we need send the Maoris, although I some pressure on the late Governor on rather favoured the idea of sending them. But this subject. Under these circumstances we find so many honourable members have he thought he was justified in moving for spoken in such high terms of the Maoris, con- copies of the correspondence, so that they cerning conduct of which I was cognisant might be enabled to see whether their privimyself at the time, though I had almost for- leges had been infringed-whether they, enjoygotten it, that I think we ought to make the ing self-government under a free Constitution, contingent consist more of Maoris than of had been interfered with improperly by the white people. The people of Europe know Secretary of State; and if it was found to be exactly what white men are, and what white the case he thought they could not too soon soldiers can do; but our enemies, who possibly discover it. The oncomings of such interfercan reckon what England can do in the way of ence ought to be noticed and resisted. If, providing white men, have no doubt forgotten therefore, the correspondence was laid upon to reckon what we can do in the way of pro- the table, they would be in a position to know viding Maori assistance if an enemy came to whether these rumours were correct or not, our shores. I think we have almost forgotten and he hoped the Minister would take no it ourselves, but no doubt we should have a objection to that being done. backing of Maoris to assist in defending us against enemies; therefore I shall support the sending of Maoris to England as representatives of New-Zealanders. The Hon. Mr. PINKERTON.-My_task at present, Sir, is a very easy one, and I beg to thank the Council for the unanimous and hearty manner in which it has received not only my very few unimportant remarks, but also for the practical unanimity with which it agrees with the motion before the Council. I think there is nothing to reply to. There has been nothing said that may be regarded as adverse except the statement by the Hon. W. Downie Stewart, who said that the reign had been a reign of war, and not a reign of peace. It is perfectly true there have been a number of wars, and I suppose there always will be wars; but the wars have been comparatively small, and of short duration. If you take the Crimean War and the Indian Mutiny away, there is really little to complain of in regard to war. But, Sir, I did not rise for the purpose of saying that, but merely for the purpose of expressing thanks to the Council for the very unanimous manner in which they have received the motion. Motion agreed to. APPOINTMENTS TO LEGISLATIVE The Hon. Mr. OLIVER, in moving the motion standing in his name, said he supposed there would be ordinarily no objection to it. He gathered from the reply he received yesterday from the Minister that, although it was not intended in this short session to lay copies of the correspondence on the table, he had no objection at all to its being laid on the table; and he (Mr. Oliver) supposed, in the ordinary course of things, without this motion, copies would be laid on the table at the commencement of the following session. But the reason why he proceeded with this motion was this: that such correspondence must necessarily have an interest to the whole of the members of the Council, and there was a rumour-he did not know whether well- or ill-founded-that there had been an endeavour on the part of the Secretary of State for the Colonies to interfere with the discretion ordinarily used by Governors in such matters, and to put The Hon. Sir G. S. WHITMORE wished to say that he thought this discussion they were invited to enter into was entirely out of place. This session was held, as every one knew, for a particular purpose. It was a very short session indeed, and was being held entirely on certain grounds. The motion of the honourable gentleman was one which in all probability he (Sir G. S. Whitmore) would agree with him in bringing forward. He had been twenty-four years in the Council, and its honour was very dear to him, and he would have backed the honourable gentleman up at any ordinary time. But this was an exceptional session, brought about by exceptional circumstances, and he did not think they would gain anything by bringing in a party resolution of this kind. The Hon. Mr. OLIVER said it was not a party resolution in any sense. The Hon. Sir G. S. WHITMORE said the honourable gentleman was good enough to say so, but he should say it looked very like a party resolution. He thought it was a pity it should. have been brought forward, and he hoped the good sense of the Council would induce them to put an end to it. Therefore, although he did not go into the merits of the case-because he believed the honourable gentleman was quite right in his motion-he should like to see the previous question " moved in order to dispose of it. Motion made, and question proposed, "That a humble address be sent to His Excellency the Administrator of the Government, requesting him to lay on the table of the Council copies of all correspondence between the late Governor, the Earl of Glasgow, and the Right Honourable Joseph Chamberlain, Secretary of State for the Colonies, on the subject of the appointment of members to this Council."-(Hon. Mr. OLIVER.) The Hon. Mr. FELDWICK moved "the previous question." The Hon. Mr. W. C. WALKER wished to say that he had not heard anything from the Hon. Mr. Oliver which required this rather exceptional notice of motion to be carried. The despatches referred to would in due course be laid on the table in both Houses. He might say that the despatches last year were up to June last, and in the ordinary course they would be laid on the table of the Council; and so far as he knew there was nothing excep tional in them to induce the Government to think that they required exceptional treatment. It was quite accurate, as the Hon. Sir G. S. Whitmore said, that the Government did not desire to embarrass their deliberations this short session with anything except the one reason for which they had been called together. For that cause he trusted the Council would not insist on having these despatches prepared and laid on the table at the present time. The Hon. Dr. GRACE said he understood his honourable triend the Minister of Education to say that he did not know of anything exceptional in this correspondence. That statement he would take to be an affirmation of the fact that there had been no departure from the constitutional practice. Now, he was quite prepared to admit that very considerable indifference tc constitutional principles was growing up in the colony. At the same time he did not think that the honourable gentlemen who sat on the Treasury benches were the kind of men to seek the ruin of our Constitution by sanctioning dictation to the Governor by the Secretary of State for the Colonies. The theory of our Constitution was quite simple: The Constitution consists of Queen, Lords, and Commons. Within our colony, the Governor, holding the Queen's commission, was an estate of the realm. He did not for a moment believe the honourable gentlemen who occupied the Treasury benches would allow that estate of the realm to be dictated to by the Secretary of State for the Colonies in matters outside the sphere of Imperial interests. Therefore, on the declaration of the Minister of Education that there was nothing unusual in this correspondence to make its publication necessary, he rested satisfied. The Hon. Mr. OLIVER said that on the declaration which the Minister of Education had made, that there was nothing unusual in the despatches, he would save the Council the trouble of going further with the matter. His object had been served. He had elicited from the Minister of Education that the rumour to which he had alluded had no foundation of truth, and therefore he respectfully asked leave to withdraw the motion. The Hon. Mr. ORMOND said he wished to say that he did not think the Council wanted to accept the statement which was made by the Minister of Education, that the Council must feel itself debarred from asking for any information or moving in any direction which in their wisdom or by their desire they thought necessary to do. He was present in another place the day previously, where a very different declaration was made by the Prime Minister, who declared that the Government would give every information in their power, so long as it did not take up time unnecessarily, and so far as they could meet the wishes of honourable members. He thought that was a very proper attitude, and he did not think for a moment the Council should tolerate any other attitude. Certainly they should not agree to hold themselves debarred from moving in any direction they thought the public interest required. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Debate adjourned. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL BILL. The Hon. Mr. W. C. WALKER, in moving the second reading of this Bill, said he trusted members of the Council had been able to read through the Bill, and learn what the purport of it was. A difficulty had arisen in the probable fact that the Council would not be sitting at the time when the period of office of the Speaker expired, and it was to enable the Council to meet with an Acting-Speaker next session, or in any other similar contingency, that this Bill had been introduced. Bill read the second time. The Council adjourned at ten minutes to five o'clock p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thursday, 8th April, 1897. First Readings-Imports and Customs Duties-Railway Revenue-Wanganui River Mail-service Privilege-Appointments to Legislative Council -Address in Reply-Mount Cook Gaol SiteLinemen on Government Railways-New Telephone Regulations - Midland Railway LandsExtension of Railway to Island Bay-Adam Armstrong-Little River and Kaituna Stationyards Midland Railway - Wellington-Eketahuna Railway-charges-Commercial Travellers' Tax-Midland Railway Extension-Advances to Settlers-New Zealand Accident Insurance Company-Wellington Suburbs Electoral DistrictCongratulations and Rejoicings on Her Majesty's Sixtieth Year of Reign-Representation of the Colony at the Celebration of the Sixtieth Anniversary of Her Majesty's Reign-Wellington City Sanitation Bill-Public Revenues Bill. Mr. SPEAKER took the chair at ten o'clock a.m. PRAYERS. FIRST READINGS. Wellington City Sanitation Loan Bill, Public Revenues Bill. IMPORTS AND CUSTOMS DUTIES. On the motion of Mr. O'REGAN, a return was ordered showing separately the value of the imports during 1896 from the different British possessions and from foreign countries, and the amount derived in Customs duties under each heading. RAILWAY REVENUE. On the motion of Mr. BUCHANAN, a return was ordered showing,-(1) The amount paid in each financial year by each Government department for railway carriage or services which were not so charged prior to the passing of "The Railways Act, 1894"; (2) the amount similarly charged to the Government railways by other Government departments. WANGANUI RIVER MAIL-SERVICE. On the motion of Mr. G. HUTCHISON, & return was ordered setting out the text of the contract between the Post Office and Messrs. Hatrick and Co. for the carriage of mails on the Wanganui River. PRIVILEGE. Sir R. STOUT said, before the Order Paper was dealt with he wished to raise a question of privilege in connection with the Order Paper. On the previous day the House suspended Standing Orders Nos. 74 and 75. That suspension only provided, as he read the Standing Orders, that on Wednesdays and Thursdays private members' motions should not have precedence. It did not, however, give precedence to the motions or Bills in the hands of the Ministry; the result, therefore, was that notices of motion and Bills must come on in the order in which notice of them had been given. He noticed that the Order Paper had been altered, and that notices of motion and orders of the day were not put down in the order in which they had been given to the House. The Ministry had assumed the right of fixing the Order Paper as if this had been a Friday or a Tuesday. He submitted no power had been given them to do this. There was no power in the Standing Orders to do it, and the usual motion to give this right to the Ministry would have been, "and that Government business have precedence for the remainder of the session." This usual motion had not been made. All that had been made was a motion, That the Standing Orders Nos. 74 and 75 be suspended. Now, the suspension of these Standing Orders gave the Government no power to have precedence; they were simply like ordinary members; their notices of motion and orders of the day must take the same chance as those of ordinary members, and come on in the order in which they had been given notice of. There was no provision whatever for giving Government business precedence; that had not been carried, and therefore he submitted that the Order Paper appeared to have been improperly prepared by the Government, and was not in accordance with the Standing . Orders. Mr. SPEAKER said he was informed by the Clerk that the Government had assumed no control for the arrangement of this day's Order Paper-that it had been arranged exclusively by himself. The suspension of the two Standing Orders was limited to suspension, as the honourable member for Wellington City said, and did not give the Government business precedence on Wednesdays and Thursdays. The Order Paper had been drawn up exclusively by the Clerk of the House, an experienced officer, and there was no doubt that the motion for the issue of a writ was entitled to precedence. Sir R. STOUT said he did not deny that. Mr. SPEAKER said that was quite clear; and then, as to the two next notices, which involved the address to Her Majesty, he believed it was a usual matter of courtesy to allow addresses precedence. With regard to the orders of the day which intervened among the notices of motion, he thought they should have followed the notices of motion; but probably they would not be taken that day at all, unless, as a matter of convenience, a debate should be raised on the Financial Statement made the previous day by calling on the Committee of Supply. Under these circumstances, he thought the Order Paper had not been got up in such a way as to involve any breach of the privileges of the House. Sir R. STOUT desired to ask whether the first two notices of motion were given before some of the returns. He understood they were given after. If they were given after, the Clerk had no right to place them before. Mr. SPEAKER said he thought, as a matter of courtesy, addresses to Her Majesty should be allowed precedence. Sir R. STOUT said No. 2 was an address to His Excellency the Governor; that was not an address to Her Majesty. Mr. SPEAKER said it referred to the celebration of Her Majesty's sixtieth anniversary, and the two notices were so linked together that it would be probably for the convenience of the House to deal with them successively. However, he had left the arrangement of the Order Paper altogether in the hands of the Clerk, who had not been controlled in this instance either by the Speaker or by the Government. Sir R. STOUT said, if the Clerk had done wrong, was the House bound to accept his decision, even though it was contrary to Standing Orders? Mr. SPEAKER said he did not think any material wrong had been done, except it might be in placing the orders of the day in the midst of notices of motion. He thought they should have been placed after the notices of motion, but of course they would come on at half-past five o'clock. Sir R. STOUT said that Notice No. 1 was merely the appointment of a Committee; and he did not see how that could be said to be an address to Her Majesty. Mr. SPEAKER said the Committee was to frame an address to Her Majesty; and he would now proceed with the business of the day, as he thought he had given his decision sufficiently on the point raised. APPOINTMENTS TO LEGISLATIVE Mr. ROLLESTON asked for what reason the notice of motion standing in his name was opposed-namely, "That a respectful address be presented to His Excellency the Administrator of the Government praying him to cause to be laid before this House, and printed during the present session, all correspondence with the Secretary of State for the Colonies, or telegrams, on the subject of the recent appointments to the Legislative Council." Mr. SEDDON said he intended to lay all despatches on the table of the House in the ordinary way at the commencement of next session. He did not see why despatches on this particular matter should be singled out. Mr. ROLLESTON said the matter was one of vital importance to the country, and it was his duty during the present session of Parliament to discuss it if possible. Mr. SEDDON wanted the return to be discussed, and that was the reason it was opposed. MOUNT COOK GAOL SITE. Mr. FISHER asked the Premier, What are the views of the Government in regard to handing over the Mount Cook Gaol site as a site for a Middle District University? The short, simple, and unaffected history of this matter was that since the year 1881, when the Government of the day first bruited the idea of erecting a central prison in Wellington, the people of this city, and every public body in the city, had strenuously and consistently opposed the erection of the central prison here. In the year 1886, when the erection of the building had not proceeded far, an influential deputation, consisting of the Mayor of the City, the members of the City Council, the Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, and of every other public body in the city, waited upon the then Premier, Mr. Stout, and asked him to arrest the erection of that frowsy prison fortress which stands at this day upon the noblest site in this city. Mr. Stout undertook to lay the matter before Cabinet, and prevent, if possible, the continuance of the work. At a later stage, the 4th February, 1886, the Mayor, Mr. Brown, telegraphed to Mr. Stout at Dunedin stating that the Mount Cook Prison works were still being carried on in spite of his promise that they should be stopped. All their hopes in the matter had been blighted, and, as he had said, an unsightly and objectionable building stood in a place where the people of Wellington thought they ought to have had erected instead a university building, as a means of providing a higher class of education for the poorer classes of the youth of this part of the colony. He had had no communication whatever with the Government upon this question, nor had he any idea what were their views upon it. He therefore, for the information of the people of this city, and in the interests of the education of the poorer classes of the youth of this city, had the honour to ask the Government what their views were upon the question. on Mr. SEDDON said he admitted that a great error of judgment was committed when that. noble site-as the honourable member for Wellington City had stated, one of the best sites in the City of Wellington-was taken for the purposes to which it had been applied, and it was a standing monument to the blundering of some one. An Hon. MEMBER.-Name. Mr. ROLLESTON said he would like to explain that the reserve was made for gaol purposes from the formation of the colony. Mr. SEDDON said, as the honourable member accepted the blame he had nothing further to say on that point. Captain RUSSELL rose to a point of order. It seemed to him that Mr. Speaker had allowed. the honourable member for Wellington City (Mr. Fisher) to make a debatable speech. The Premier was also going into debatable matter, and, that being so, they should get into the position of threshing the matter out. Mr. SPEAKER said he was quite aware that he had allowed the honourable member for Wellington City (Mr. Fisher) to border upon debatable matter, but as a new member he had allowed the honourable gentleman more latitude than he would to an older member of the House. He hoped that old members of the House, however, would observe the usual rulein asking questions. As the Hon. the Premier was an old member of the House, he did not regard him as entitled to enter upon debatable matter in answering the question put to him by the honourable member for Wellington. City (Mr. Fisher). Mr. SEDDON hoped that, in extenuation of his offending, the interruption by the new member for Riccarton would be accepted as his excuse. He was saying, when interrupted, that he regretted the prison had been built upon that site. But, however, he thought he was within the mark when he said that it had cost. this colony something like £40,000. The next question was, What, then, were they to do with it? He should be sorry indeed to make that building the university buildings for the district. It would be a standing jar to every youth of the colony to say that they got. their teaching in the new gaol-building of Wellington. That was his view of the question. On the other question raised, as to the MiddleDistrict University, probably he might say that, this being the diamond Jubilee year, it would be well to mark that year with the establishment of a Diamond Jubilee University, and the Government might favourably consider making provision for that purpose. He thought the occasion was a fitting one for a new departure taking place, so that the poorer classes of their colonists and their sons might have an opportunity for higher education. LINEMEN ON GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS. Mr. MONK asked the Minister for Railways, Whether he will make arrangements so that the linemen on the Government railways shall have every Saturday afternoon by leaving off work at 1 o'clock? He was merely asking for what had been allowed to workpeople in an institution with which he had been connected thirty years ago, and which had been found to be a great boon. He thought there could be no difficulty in granting it, and he hoped he would receive a favourable reply from the Minister. Mr. CADMAN said this was a matter which had been considered several times, with a view to doing something in the direction indicated by the honourable member's question, but after carefully considering the matter he had arrived at the conclusion that the safety of the travelling public was of paramount importance. Under present circumstances, if an accident occurred there were men on all lines of the colony available, and on Saturday afternoons there were as many, if not more, trains running as on any other afternoon in the week. Of course, trains ran more frequently during the day than after dark, and there was a certain amount of risk incurred by running after the men's working-hours were over, but this was unavoidable. He had very carefully considered the question on several occasions, but concluded the risk of allowing all the lines in the colony to be without men during the whole of Saturday afternoon was too great to be run. NEW TELEPHONE REGULATIONS. Mr. GUINNESS asked the PostmasterGeneral, Whether the Government will delay the bringing into operation of the new telephone regulations until the House has had an opportunity of expressing its opinion with regard to the same? He had put this question on the Order Paper because he was aware that a great deal of dissatisfaction existed at the contemplated increase in the telephone charges. As honourable members were aware, these charges were reduced to a very low price, and many persons had been induced to have telephonic connections made in consequence of these reductions. After they felt the benefit of telephonic communication, then these regulations were brought down to increase the charges. He was aware a large amount of revenue was said to be lost in consequence of these reductions, but he thought the House should have an opportunity of considering the question before the regulations were brought into operation. Mr. SEDDON said he would give the reasons for increasing the charges shortly. During last session this matter was brought under the notico of the House, and, he thought, a return was asked for showing the loss sustained by the Government in working their telephone system. The loss sustained under the old rates was, he thought, about £4,000, or a little over £4,000 a year. With extensions under these regulations it simply meant there would be a further loss, and he failed to see why they should cause the taxpayers generally to subscribe to or subsidise those who used their telephones. After having a careful calculation made as to how this loss could be prevented, VOL. XCVII.-4. the Government came to the conclusion to increase the rates to £7 where telephones were being used for business purposes. When he told the House that their charges were the lowest in the world, even with this increase, he was sure no reasonable person had a right to complain. In New South Wales the charge was £9 for what the New Zealand Government was giving for £7. Then, in regard to the increase on branch lines, they knew that a loss was sustained in several parts of the colony. In one part especially the loss on one line was something like £100 a year. He gave this explanation to the House so that honourable members would see there was no necessity for postponing the regulations. MIDLAND RAILWAY LANDS. Mr. O'REGAN asked the Minister of Lands, If he will indicate when the lands included in the lien under the Midland Railway Contract Act will be available for settlement? If he were a new member of the House, he should feel inclined to make a speech in putting this most important question. However, he would content himself with stating that for the last twelve years it had been impossible to obtain land on the West Coast, except upon a most precarious tenure, known as the occupation license; but this allowed grazing rights only, without the right to remove timber, and, as all the land on the West Coast was timbered, this tenure was not of the slightest utility. The question was one of vital importance to the West Coast, Nelson, and Canterbury. 11.0. Mr. J. MCKENZIE said he could not give at the present time any date upon which the lien which was held by the Midland Railway Company over the lands on the West Coast owing to the Midland Railway contract would be released. He quite admitted what the honourable member saidthat settlement on the West Coast had been brought almost to a standstill through this land being locked up; but, so far, any demands made by the Government upon the Midland Railway Company had been met, if not by the shareholders of the company, by the debentureholders, who, he presumed, were meeting these demands with a view to keeping their position safe as far as the colony was concerned. How far they would go on doing so it would be impossible for him to say; but, so long as the debenture-holders or shareholders would find the money to pay for all the demands made upon them by the Government, the Government could not interfere with the terms of the contract or take the land away. It was impossible for him to give any definite reply to the honourable gentleman as to when the land would be available for settlement. He regretted very much that was his reply, but that was the position. EXTENSION OF RAILWAY TO ISLAND BAY. Mr. FISHER asked the Minister for Public Works, Whether the Government are in pos |