An Hon. MEMBER.-The 27th January. Mr. M. J. S. MACKENZIE. The 27th January. Very well. Now, we might have been called weeks and weeks ago; and why, I ask, were we not called at a much earlier date?

An Hon. MEMBER. — The Premier was in Australia.

Mr. M. J. S. MACKENZIE.-Yes, but he has been back from Australia for some considerable time; and the fact that he was in Australia, and that nothing at all could be done in his absence, seems to show that I am right in interpreting to the House his opinion of his own colleagues; but that is an aspect of the question I have already dealt with. Why, I ask, were we not called together earlier? Simply because it is as clear as anything can be that the Premier wanted to have us bound up here in such a way that we could not possibly have more than a four or five days' session. The honourable gentleman, in announcing why Parliament was called together for the 6th of this month, also announced the fact that he was going away on the 15th-in other words, that we had to settle up our business before that date, and when, in addition, the Easter holidays would be upon us, so that, let us be ever so anxious to get on with the business, it would be impossible to do it. It is absolutely essential, in my opinion, that the views of the leader of the Opposition for the extension of the Public Revenues Act to the 30th September only should be indorsed by this House, otherwise we shall be here during the summer months. Those of us who have been here before at such a season know what that means. Then we shall have the shearing and the harvesting on, and, with the Christmas holidays near at hand, there will be a session of only perhaps six weeks or so, when every one will be wanting to be off, and the business of the country will be entirely neglected. That is a sufficient reason why we should take care that Supply is not given for a longer period than the 30th September. The leader of the Opposition has told the House how long the Premier can be at Home within that period. I say the time is quite long enough. I should be the very last man to deprive the honourable gentleman of his holiday. He deserves it, and he ought to get it. He told us to-night of the public business he had to attend to in England outside the business of the pageant he has to witness. I do not think, myself, that he will be idle, but I dare say most members of the House will agree with me that the calling of conferences rarely leads to any real business at all. I remember reading in a celebrated work by Sir Henry Taylor, who was the most experienced as well as the most distinguished parliamentary head of a department England has ever known, and a man of genius as well-I say that I remember him saying in his book, "The Statesman," that within his long experience he had never known really important public business transacted outside the House otherwise than by corre

to prevent the business to be done in London by the Premier being done by letter and through the Agent-General. The leader of the Opposition demanded that the Premier should state exactly to the House the nature of that business. I do not agree with that myself. I do not think we should ask him to do anything of the kind. It might spoil his holiday. A great deal of that business will no doubt be transacted in Paris, Berlin, and other pleasant resorts, and I think it was therefore a cruel suggestion rather on the part of my honourable friend, which I can hardly indorse. But still, allowing for all the business the Premier has to do, no doubt the dates named by the leader of the Opposition would give him ample time in which to do it. I need hardly say that the chief business we have to attend to will have to be transacted when the ordinary session commences in September. Then I do think a very stern account will be demanded from the Government on matters connected with public finance, and the administration of the last year or two. The Minister of Lands invited that criticism, and that invitation will, he may depend, be responded to: let there be no mistake on that point. He said that, as usual, we would magnify with a most powerful glass all the shortcomings of the Government. They require no such glass; they are there visible to the naked eye; everybody may see them for himself. A stern account, I say, will be demanded from my honourable friends opposite; but I do not propose to spoil the Premier's holiday by dwelling on that extremely disagreeable aspect. I heartily wish him joy of his trip, and hope that he may derive abundant benefit from it; and I am satisfied the country will, at least, not lose by it. I can say no more than that.

Mr. GILFEDDER.--Sir, in rising to say a few words on this Address in Reply, I shall endeavour to be as concise as possible, seeing that we are met for a short special session, and that it is necessary for us to expedite business as much as we can. In the first place, I congratulate the mover and the seconder of the Address in Reply upon the able manner in which they performed their task. I can quite agree with the mover of the Address when he says that at the first blush he did not see the necessity for this colony being represented at the Queen's record reign celebration. In that respect I am at one with him. I came to the conclusion myself that pressing circumstances in this colony necessitated the Premier's presence here, and that loyalty to Her Majesty the Queen is not altogether shown in these costly displays, and in the pageantry that is to take place at the celebration. But afterwards, when I perceived that the other colonies had decided to be represented on that memorable occasion, I came to the conclusion that New Zealand should not stand aloof, and perhaps gain the unenviable distinction of being a disloyal colony. I believe there is no more loyal man in New Zealand than the Premier himself, and, as there is a general consensus of opinion that this

I

colony should be represented by the Premier, hope that the good sense of the members of this House will allow the decision of the majority to be carried into effect in a manner becoming the colony, and will make suitable provision for the representation of New Zealand at that celebration. I have a few remarks to make with regard to the expressions that have fallen from the honourable member for Hawke's Bay. In the first few sentences of his speech he alluded to the Premier as the first man in the country. A little further on he says, "Why should he take any precedence whatsoever over the other members of the Cabinet?" He says that in constitutional law there is no difference whatsoever between the Prime Minister and the other members of the Cabinet. I quite agree with him, and I believe, as far as constitutional law is concerned, there is no essential difference between the members of the Cabinet and the other members of the House. There is in the conventions and the customs of the Constitution, but not in the Constitution itself. He says, further, the Prime Minister should not go Home untrammelled and unfettered. Are we to assume from this remark that we are to send Home the honourable gentleman bound hand and foot to attend the Queen's record reign celebration? If so, I say we are placing ourselves in a very invidious position indeed. Other Premiers will go there with their contingents of Volunteers, and they will go untrammelled and unfettered by their Houses of Representatives; and I think we shall be acting unwisely if we do anything to fetter our Premier, or to place obstacles in the way of his going Home. The honourable member for Dunedin City agrees to a certain extent with the leader of the Opposition, in complimenting those honourable gentlemen who moved and seconded the Address in Reply, but the honourable member pretends to be a prophet. Allow me to tell him that no man is a prophet in his own country; and, as this is the adopted country of the honourable member for Dunedin City, he cannot be expected to act the role of other than a false prophet. He has prophesied before to-night, and his predictions have seldom been fulfilled; nor are they likely to be fulfilled either, when he says that the mover and seconder of the Address in Reply will before very long drift away from the Government or Ministerial side into what is generally termed the Left Wing. We listened with great pleasure, no doubt, to the address that has been delivered by the honourable the senior member for Dunedin City; but he scarcely alluded to the debate that was going on. He gave us instead a free and independent lecture on one manthe Hon. the Premier. No doubt he did it with very good dramatic effect. He told us that he was not a new member; that he had been in the House before; and, consequently, that he knew the run of the ropes. Well, if it was the custom when he was in the House, instead of speaking on the subject under discussion, to deliver an address on one personage, I am pleased that I was not then a member of this

House. Then he alludes to the Premier's statements at the Dannevirke meeting to the effect that the Parliament of New Zealand could not be carried on in his absence. I may say I had not the opportunity of hearing the Premier's utterances on that occasion, and consequently I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the report of his speech; but, nevertheless, seeing that at the present time the worthy Minister of Lands is in delicate health, as also is the Minister for Railways, and seeing that our Premier holds the important portfolios of Postmaster-General, Colonial Treasurer, and Minister of Labour, it stands to reason there is a probability of questions being asked which only the administrator of those departments could answer. I say, then, that it is essential that the Prime Minister, who has been called the first man in the country by the leader of the Opposition, should be in his place there to explain and answer such questions. A very good offer, a very generous one no doubt, is made to the Government by the senior member for Dunedin City. He says, "I offer one of the worthy twenty-eight members of the Opposition to assist the Ministry." It seems, then, he has the members of the Opposition for sale or hire, as the case may be, and that he is ready to lend them out on very favourable terms indeed. Now, we have had experience before of the Government of this colony being carried on by those worthy members of the Opposition, and what did we find? We found that the country gradually drifted from bad to worse. And most probably the same would occur again, and therefore I strongly advise the Premier and the occupants of the Ministerial benches to decline with thanks this generous offer of the worthy senior member for Dunedin City. In conclusion, I hope honourable members, seeing there is a general consensus of opinion that this colony should be represented, will endeavour to have it worthily represented, and will permit the Premier to go Home with a dignity suitable to the occasion, and to the importance of this colony, which, I maintain, is one of the most flourishing of the Australasian group, and promises to be the most prosperous part of that glorious Empire on which the sun never sets.

Mr. TAYLOR.—Sir, I should not like to vote on this motion, as the representative of an important constituency, without saying something on behalf of my constituents on this occasion. I want to say at once that I have no objection to the Hon. the Premier going to England; nor do I think many people in the colony have. With everything that has been said as to the occasion which necessitates the visit being one worthy of our giving every attention to I agree heartily; but I am sorry to find, Sir, that there are members on the side of the House to which I belong who seem to hold strong democratic principles upon the platform, but to lose them when they reach the floor of this House. I am conscious of this fact, Sir: that, much as I honour the Queen, and much as I rejoice at the remarkable advances that have been made throughout the English-speaking

world during the past sixty years, I recognise that the improved tone of the Court has been largely brought about by the improved tone of the people, that it is not a one-sided affair at all,—and that, if we have reason to congratulate ourselves upon Her Majesty having ruled over us, Her Majesty has reason to congratulate her. self upon having a very much superior people to rule over than any of her predecessors had. Now, I want to say this very emphatically and clearly that down South there is a strong feeling that this short session ought not to have been necessary; that the Hon. the Premier has created his own difficulty by having established a monopoly of Ministerial power within the Cabinet. It seems to me, Sir, that this occasion does mark an epoch; it marks two epochs the one about which we have heard so much from the honourable gentlemen who moved and seconded the Address in Reply, and from the honourable member who has just taken his seat. But I am afraid it will mark an epoch in the history of the Liberal party of the colony. I believe one of the many reasons why the Opposition are so willing that the Premier should visit London is because they hope, and I think with good reason, that his visit will prove ultimately disastrous to the Liberal party. Sir, that is my opinion, and that is sound tactics from the standpoint of the Opposition. Now, that very reason is one of the strongest reasons I have for regretting that the Premier is to leave the colony, because I fear the time when the Opposition will return to power. We have heard a great deal, and from sources that have astonished me, about the invitation from the Secretary of State being equivalent to a command. I say that in a democratic colony no member, at least on this side of the House, should talk in any such terms as those. A democracy should take no command from the Secretary of State. I deny that it is a command. It is really an invitation from the Secretary of State to a free governing colony to take part in a ceremonial, and I say it is well within our province, without any loss of selfrespect or dignity as a colony, to accept or to decline the invitation. I have no objection to the Premier going Home. I think he has earned the honour that attaches to the visit, and I am inclined to think it will ultimately do him good personally; but there is one feature about it that I have a strong objection to. I say that to send the troops Home, as is proposed, is nothing more nor less than a burlesque. What do we find in the despatch? We have been told we must accept the invitation as a whole. I say the Secretary of State, in his despatch, clearly draws a distinction between the invitation of the Premier and the suggestion that troops should accompany the Premier. For instance, he says, " hoping that the colonies will also desire that their military forces should be represented on this occasion." That is not an invitation, it is a suggestion. But it is not in the same category as the invitation for the Premier to attend. A further reference is here: "Should it be found practicable to carry out this idea," -and that is the point for this Parliament

to settle. One other reference in the Secretary of State's despatch is worthy of its author-I refer to the suggestion that the forces should go as an escort or guard of honour to the Premier on special occasions. It is one that ought to merit the severest condemnation from Parliamentat any rate, from this side of Parliament. I want to point out again that we are proposing to send Home Native troops, which is tantamount to doing something of the nature of a false pretence. They are not troops of the country. We are creating them specially. They are puppets-nothing more nor less. They have never raised an arm on behalf of the colony. They are to be sworn in specially now. We have not a Native corps of Volunteers in the colony. I say it is playing; it is theatricals; it is not statecraft at all. There is another feature of this proposal about which I wish to speak. What about the expense of the contingent? Within a few weeks we shall have hundreds of men and women in New Zealand wanting to know where their next meal shall come from; and, representing a populous district and an industrial community, I protest against this wanton waste of funds. When we ask for work for the unemployed we shall be told that there are no funds; and at the same time it is proposed to squander at least £5,000-perhaps £6,000-upon this useless display. If this display had any effect on the counsels of Europe we might let it go; but would it have any effect? There is scarcely a European power of any importance that does not know perfectly well the strength of the Volunteer force of this colony, and where every gun is in the harbours, and how many rounds of ammunition we have for them, and all about it. Let us think of it-particularly those who have seen a London crowd. Who will see our fifty men ? If they are seen in the procession I shall be surprised. But they would attract a tremendous amount of attention if they acted as an escort to the Hon. the Premier as he went round London; and not only that, but they would attract a tremendous amount of ridicule, for the people of London can see through a farce as quickly as any people, if not more quickly. Another word of importance to the colony I wish to say. The suggestion has been made that the Agent General might have represented the colony on this occasion. The honourable member for Wellington City, in moving the Address in Reply, said that it was almost impossible. I think his comparisons were unfortunate. But what are the facts? We have a costly office in London, and there are many people who think-and I consider with justice— that we do not get value for the money spent in that office. I think that that office should carry more responsibility with it than it does. It ought to have more dignity attaching to it. I am not suggesting that the present occupant of the office is not worthy and able. I believe he is; but, if we had suggested to the authorities at Home that the Agent-General should discharge some of the duties which it is proposed the Premier shall now discharge, it would

cracy meant, that state of things could not possibly go on. I hope it cannot go on much longer.

An Hon. MEMBER.-Hear, hear. Mr. TAYLOR--I do not quite know, Sir, what that meant; but if it means that that honourable gentleman thinks the Opposition are at all likely to help us out of this dilemma I cannot indorse it, for the simple reason that, so far as I know, the Opposition are fifty times worse from my standpoint than the Government has been or is ever likely to be. I have mentioned these things because I believe there is a tremendous number of men and women in New Zealand who are one in their desire to see progress, who are intelligent in their ideas and methods of thinking, and who take up this view from deepest convictions. I refer again to the wrong system by which we are dealing with these three great sources of natural wealth. Then I want, in conclusion, to say this: I hope the Premier will enjoy his trip Home, and come back here with a clearer perception of what this country requires-that he will come back here prepared to allow the people to have some say in the Government of this colony. I want to say this again, Sir: that I hope this epoch in the history of New Zealand will demonstrate as nothing has ever before done the necessity for that great reform-I refer to the Elective Executive. Nothing that I know-and I have taken a keen interest in the politics of this colony for many years-has ever demonstrated so clearly the necessity for reforming our Constitution. I do not want to say one word of reproach to the colleagues of the Hon. the Premier. I only regret that they do not assert themselves more, and see what every man and woman in New Zealand recognises as the real evil existing at the present time. It is surely absurd that the head of the Government should bother himself with all the trifling appointments from one end of the colony to the other. I say it is almost a disgrace to this country that the Premier should control all these appointments. I think these appointments ought to be made by the heads of the departments, and that, unless some distinct wrongdoing can be brought home against the head of a department, his appointment ought to stand. The tendency of the present system is to degrade the high office of Premier. I am anxious to see the day, Sir, when the Government will busy themselves with principles. I am anxious to see the day when the Government will get a real grip of the needs of the people of this colony; and when we shall see the people given the freest possible access to the wealth that belongs to them. I apologize for trespassing so long upon the time of the House, but I felt that if I failed to put on record what I believe to be the opinion of a large number of men and women in this colony I should fail in doing my duty.

Mr. J. HUTCHESON. Sir, in rising to reply, first let me sincerely thank the honour able members who have so courteously bestowed words of cheer and encouragement on my unworthy first effort. They have caused

me to feel indeed that I have been accorded in the fullest sense the indulgence of the House. I feel that on this occasion I have failed to do myself justice; but, had I been possessed of half the sense of self-satisfaction that actuates some honourable gentlemen, no doubt I should have been able to overcome my natural diffi dence and said more clearly and fully what I really meant. However, this is a failing that no doubt time and the wholesome discipline of this House will to some extent correct. And perhaps after all it is well that what may be in me should reveal itself slowly than otherwise. That the prediction of the honourable member from Dunedin City will be verified in time is hardly likely. I think, of all the unlikely things that are possible to happen, the unlikeliest will be my sitting side by side with the honourable member for Dunedin City. I trust I shall always belong to that party which I believe has the welfare of the people at heart. I have much pleasure in moving, That this House presents an Address in reply to His Excellency the Administrator of the Government of New Zealand.

Motion agreed to.

THE FINANCES OF THE COLONY.

Mr. SEDDON.-Mr. Speaker, I desire to lay upon the table of the House a memorandum showing the financial position on the 31st March last past. I had thought it would have taken us to a late hour to conclude the debate on the Address in Reply, but, as the opportunity is now given, I would crave the indulgence of honourable members while I read this memorandum to them. I am sure they will pardon me. It is in reference to the finances of the colony. It is information which they have a right to demand, and which I must in justice to them and the colony give. I will ask, therefore, that honourable members will give me their attention whilst I briefly put the position before them.

Memorandum by the Hon. the Colonial Trea

surer, R. J. Seddon, showing approximately the position of the Public Accounts on the 31st March, 1897.

The necessity for laying this Memorandum on the table of the House arises, as honourable members are aware, from the fact that it was deemed advisable to hold a special meeting of Parliament for the purpose of enabling arrangements to be made for a fitting representation of the colony at the celebration in honour of the sixtieth anniversary of Her Most Gracious Majesty's reign. To get the accounts audited and passed is impracticable, for members will remember that, according to the existing law, the Treasury has thirty days allowed for preparation and printing of the abstract of the revenue and expenditure of the year, and within this period the abstract has to be sent to the Audit Offices, who have a further period of fourteen days allowed for the examination and passing of the accounts. Honourable members may think this is a long period to be allowed when it is compared with the rapidity