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They are bitterly disillusioned. The virtue of this bill, as I see it, is that it purports, and I think, in fact will offer, some redress for the most pressing aspects of the problem. Also the Commission set up would undertake in a scientific and objective way to point out what further avenues may be explored.

In that sense, I don't believe it would be a program that anybody

could be offended at.

Senator ERVIN. I am offended by the Attorney General's bill because I would never countenance depriving any American, white or colored, of such basic rights as the right to trial by jury, the right to confront and cross-examine one's accusers and the right to have adequate representation by counsel.

I consider those rights sacred. I would not relinquish them under any circumstances, and I would never advocate their being taken away from any other American.

Mr. MITCHELL. I would say, very respectfully, Mr. Chairman, that there was a contest between giants here the other day, the former justice of the supreme court of North Carolina and the Attorney General of the United States.

As an observer on the sidelines, I would say that if I were sitting in a jury and heard these two magnificent lawyers contest that issue, when I retired to the jury room I would be inclined to give the verdict to the Attorney General because I respectively submit, Mr. Chairman, that these questions which you have raised are not really a part of what we have to fear in the country.

I think the greater fear and the overriding consideration that ought to trouble everyone is the fact that, while we are engaged in very laudable excursions to all parts of the world for the purpose of defending democracy, there is a serious problem right here at home that we do not seem to have the means of correcting under present law.

Senator ERVIN. We are worried about what Russia does to liberty. Yet we are asked to pass laws which allow one man out of all the human beings in the universe, to determine whether we will strike down rights so basic that the founders of this country saw fit to enshrine them in the Constitution.

I want to say I appreciate the references to myself. I will say this: On yesterday I was glad to state that I had never heard of the NAACP being charged with being listed as a subversive organization by the Attorney General. I for one would stand and fight to the last ditch to see that the NAACP or any other organization shall enjoy the right to freedom of speech, even though I might disagree with their views or disapprove of their activities. One thing that worries me about the Attorney General's bill is that under government by injunction American citizens can be deprived of the right to freedom of speech.

I also want to say this: I appreciate the fact that you and I have been able to discuss these things upon which you and I are in irreconcilable disagreement without either one of us getting disagreeable about it.

Mr. MITCHELL. I want to say, Mr. Chairman, I am glad you mentioned the matter that arose yesterday. Immediately after the hearings yesterday I said to your secretary that I was grateful to you for your prompt statement. I think you share a position taken by Judge Parker in a case that we have defending the teachers of Elloree, S. Č., who have been dismissed from their jobs because they are members of the NAACP. Judge Parker said approximately what you have said,

that while what we seek may be unpopular in certain areas, there is nothing to show that we are an organization that is doing anything unlawful.

Senator ERVIN. I go along with Judge Parker in defending the right of every American, white or colored, to join such organizations as he sees fit as long as such organizations are not engaged in illegal activities.

I think that whenever that right is denied to any group we are doing a serious thing to our basic rights. I think these bills of the Attorney General are doing serious injury to the basic rights of all Americans. Governor Coleman, were you present and did you hear the question about the appropriation?

STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES P. COLEMAN, GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI-Resumed

Governor COLEMAN. I was not present, no, sir. I was talking to some men out in the corridor and I did not hear the question, but I will be happy to try to answer any question which the subcommittee may wish to propound to me.

Senator ERVIN. Suppose you restate it.

Mr. MITCHELL. I said, Governor, in your absence that there had been a considerable amount of disagreement between some of the members of the subcommittee and ourselves on some of the evidence that we had presented, but that there could be no disagreement on one thing which was published in the Jackson Daily News.

There was an article saying that $250,000 had been appropriated by the State of Mississippi for the purpose of establishing a State sovereignty commission. The article quoted you as saying that the Commission would make an effort to find out what was going on in clandestine meetings of Negroes who were trying to get integration, and it also said that paid informants would be hired to gather information on what Negroes were doing about integration in Mississippi. Governor COLEMAN. I will state to the committee that the State of Mississippi does have such a State sovereignty commission. It does have an appropriation of $250,000. The sovereignty commission was established by an act of the legislature which I signed as Governor. The appropriation of $250,000 was approved by me as Governor. The purpose of that State sovereignty commission is to keep peace and quiet in our State, to keep down racial strife and hatred and trouble between the races, to try to avoid the occurrences that we unhappily have seen take place in other States.

Up to now we have not had any trouble whatsoever. There is a special necessity for that in the State of Mississippi in that 45 percent of our inhabitants are members of the Negro race. Fifty-five percent are members of the white race.

I was quoted in a magazine the other day as saying, and I was correctly quoted, that Clinton, Tenn., would look like a boil on the side of Mount Everest compared to what could happen in Mississippi if the tides of racial hatred and strife and prejudice and passions were to be unloosed in that State. I do not have a copy of my inaugural address here with me, Mr. Chairman, but when I was sworn in as Governor, I said to the people of the State of Mississippi on that occasion and to the world that Mississippi was going to be a State of

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law and not of violence, that the real legal rights of all the people, white and Negro, were going to be respected under this administration.

I said furthermore that we were going to follow the teachings of Thomas Jefferson, to wit: that we would not do wrong just because our adversaries may have done so, but by setting the right example, we would try to lead them to do that which was right.

I furthermore quoted the verse from 2 Timothy to the effect that God had not given the people of Mississippi a spirit of fear but one of power and love and a sound mind and the willingness to do what is right.

Now nobody in the State of Mississippi can point out to one single instance where this State sovereignty commission has trespassed on the personnal rights of anybody.

As a matter of fact, the great claim down there is that the sovereignty commission has not been doing much. The point is it has not had much to do and that is the way we want it.

We prefer that it not have anything to do. But on the other hand, if the situation should arise with others raising money, with others having possibly the agents of the United States, why should not we have some money and why should not we have some agents, and why should not we meet the onslaught if it comes, as we no doubt will, praying, however, that it will be hereafter as it has been up to now, altogether peaceable and quiet.

Of course the State sovereignty commission is looked upon or attempted to be pictured as a machine or an engine of tyranny and oppression, but let me point this out. In 1954, before I was Governor of Mississippi, and as soon as this Supreme Court decision was handed down on the 17th day of June, the Governor then called a special session of the legislature and an amendment was proposed to the constitution which would abolish any public school if it were to be integrated.

That was submitted to the people and they ratified it at the polls and it is now a part of the constitution of the State of Mississippi. It is utterly legally impossible, it is legally impossible to integrate a school in the State of Mississippi.

If the United States Court were to order one integrated they would just be closed up and those who sought to have it integrated would be like Samson who pulled the temple down on his own head.

Senator ERVIN. Governor, Samson's foolish exploit is an apt illustration of the hazards in these bills. By reason of all this emotional agitation about racial matters, many Americans have lost in a large measure their sense of perspective, and like Samson are willing to destroy the constitutional safeguards of all our citizens to accomplish what they think ought to be accomplished in the name of civil rights. Governor COLEMAN. If the chairman will permit me, and I am sure he will, I can give you an illustration of how this sovereignty commission works from an occurrence that took place yesterday in my State, and which my executive assistant told me about over the telephone last evening.

They had a young Negro man down in one county of the State who had been making threatening and abusive phone calls to certain people. In the past in Mississippi that has been a sure-fire way to start bad trouble and to start it quickly. We believe from all the appearances that this Negro man must be insane actually. Well, what did we do? We sent the only investigator that the sovereignty commission has at

this time down there to make arrangements to have his lunacy checked into, and if he is insane, committed to the State hospital before we should have trouble in our State. I believe everybody will agree that that is a constructive proposition, and I can give you example after example of it.

Now so far as the schools in Mississippi are concerned, the average salary of a Negro school teacher in Mississippi in 1940 was about $175 a year. Now it is up to approximately $2,600 a year. Mississippi today is appropriating five times as much money for schools for the white and Negro children as it appropriated only 12 years ago.

Any State that has the economic problems that Mississippi has, which can multiply its educational appropriations 5 times over in 12 years, with the overwhelming majority of it going to the education of these Negro people, somebody must be conscious of their needs and desires and the benefit that they would be to our State if they were educated instead of uneducated.

Senator ERVIN. Thank you, Governor.

Mr. SLAYMAN. I have one question.
Senator ERVIN. Yes?

Mr. SLAYMAN. Governor, may I ask you a couple of questions about this State sovereignty commission?

Governor COLEMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. SLAYMAN. This is a law and order commission, is that correct! Governor COLEMAN. Well, the best evidence I guess would be the act itself which I do not have before me, but the purpose of it is stated in very broad and general terms, left up, however, to a commission composed of the Governor as chairman, and on that commission you have the Lieutenant Governor, you have the speaker of the house of representatives, you have 2 members of the house and 2 of the senate, and you have 3 citizens from the State at large appointed by the Governor.

In other words, it is drawn from the entire State, the purpose of course not being to concentrate the power or the authority to do something rash and wrong in a very few hands.

I might say even in the State of Mississippi, 1 of the 48 States, we have twice as many people on our sovereignty commission as they propose to put on this Civil Rights Commission for the whole United States.

Mr. SLAYMAN. Do they have other than investigative powers? Can they subpena witnesses?"

Governor COLEMAN. They can but have not. They have not exercised the power of subpena?

Mr. SLAYMAN. But they do have the power of subpena?

Governor COLEMAN. Yes, they do have the power of subpena.

Mr. SLAYMAN. Of course you don't take sides in law and order. If there were to be a revival of the Ku Klux Klan or of any such group of people, you would investigate them too?

Governor COLEMAN. Absolutely. I do not think we will have any revival of the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi. We have not had it up until now. We have very stern statutes against what we call whitecapping, going about with your face concealed and all that sort of thing, and there has been no movement to that effect up to this present time.

Of course the power of supena in this sovereignty commission is no more than the power that any legislative committee would have.

The only trouble is our legislature just sits once every 2 years. It s not constantly in session like most of the time the Congress of the United States is.

I

Mr. SLAYMAN. Mr. Chairman, with your permission-Governor, think it would be helpful to the constitutional rights committee to have a copy of that statute.

Governor COLEMAN. I will be happy to furnish it and I might sugbest that only last week Arkansas enacted a similar statute and possibly somebody could furnish that to you.

They copied it from our State sovereignty law in Mississippi.
Mr. SLAYMAN. Thank you very much.

Governor COLEMAN. Thank you.

Senator ERVIN. Governor, I would just like to say in this conection that, one of the things which disturbs me, especially in this area, is the appparent attitude of a lot of people that all of us must conform our thoughts to theirs.

I am told, for example, that I must not speak critically of the Supreme Court of the United States even though I believe from what I learned sitting at the feet of Eugene Wambaugh, a great constitutional lawyer from Ohio in the Harvard Law School, that the Supreme Court has departed many times in recent years from i's proper role as a judicial tribunal. But I think that every American citizen, whatever may be his race or his creed, still has the right to think and to speak his honest thoughts concerning anything on the face of the earth, including the decisions of Supreme Court majorities.

I am frank to state that if we are to have government by injunction that that right is going to be seriously curtailed.

Governor COLEMAN. If I could comment on that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that I spent 4 years of my life as a trial judge on a court of general jurisdiction and then later was promoted to the supreme court of the State by appointment of the Governor.

I have never supposed that the official acts and deeds of a judge were beyond just criticism, and I would like to point out that in the last meeting of the National Governors Conference in Atlantic City, that we passed resolutions which could be considered of a critical nature, at least we looked with great concern on the decisions of the Supreme Court of the United States in such matters as the Pennsylvania case and others.

did.

Senator ERVIN. I might add

Governor COLEMAN. That was the governors conference-what it

Senator ERVIN. I might add that the Association of Chief Justices of the State Courts of the 48 States have done practically the same. thing. They have passed a resolution asking Congress to enact a statute to end the absurd system sanctioned by the Supreme Court by which the lowest Federal courts nullify the decisions of the highest courts of the States. Consequently, those of us who may be critical of some of the actions of the Supreme Court in recent days find ourselves in the same boat with the chief justice of all of the State courts in America.

Governor COLEMAN. I have never made it my business to, you know, go out of my way just to criticize and heave rocks at the Supreme

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