Mrs. YOUNG. When she came home they found out where she had been stopping at.

Senator ERVIN. Senator Sparkman, you have asked the privilege to make a statement before the committee. Would you like to make a statement at this time?

Senator SPARKMAN. I don't want to break in. I asked for the opportunity some time ago.

Senator ERVIN. I believe that she is the last scheduled witness. The only other thing that I know I want to call Reverend Courts but it may be necessary for me to let it go until the morning until I get further information.

Senator SPARKMAN. My statement is rather brief. If you care to I would be glad to give it at this time.

Senator ERVIN. We will be glad to hear it at this time.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN SPARKMAN, UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ALABAMA

Senator SPARK MAN. Mr. Chairman, I confess that I have not agreed with Attorney General Brownell and other proponents of the so-called civil rights legislation now before your committee. There is one statement, however, that the Attorney General made in his testimony with which I am in hearty accord. It is that there's needed and I quote his words "A greater knowledge of the problem.”

In this regard, Mr. Brownell is entirely correct. For some years, I have advocated a better understanding of the facts. That would show, in my opinion, that the kind of legislation now before this committee would not accomplish what its sponsors may think.

You just cannot legislate the mores or traditions or habits of a people. The Prohibition amendment proves this, and the lawbooks are replete with similar illustrations. Moreover, events happening every day in all parts of this Nation show that in actual practice there is just as much discrimination elsewhere as in the South. Maybe the laws are not the same but, by and large, the customs and practices are. Such a study of the facts would also show that improvement in economic conditions inevitably makes for improvement in racial relations.

By the way, Mr. Chairman, if I may digress from my prepared statement, I was reading the Birmingham News today over at the Capitol, and I saw a front page article entitled "Minnesota Official Says North Misinformed on Negro in South." I want to read a little bit of it and I would like to have the whole article-it is not very longprinted as a part of my remarks.

Senator ERVIN. The whole article will be included in the record at this point.

Senator SPARKMAN. Yes.

(The document referred to is as follows:)

MINNESOTA OFFICIAL SAYS NORTH "MISINFORMED" ON NEGRO IN SOUTH

By Paul Hogan, News Staff writer

"A lot of misinformation is being sent our way regarding the Negro situation in the South," Milton Rosen, commissioner of public utilities in St. Paul, Minn., said here today.

"We have the impression that Negroes are badly downtrodden and in a suppressed condition down here," Rosen said.

"On this visit, I have seen the Negro schools, golf courses, swimming pools, and other utilities.

"It's a whole lot of misinformation," he said. Rosen said the Negro's status in the South is much better than the impression Northern people have gained. "Rabble-rousers have told us that Negroes are 'terribly mistreated,'" he added. "I think it would be a good thing if the South sent responsible representatives to the North to tell us what is going on."

Rosen also pointed out that northern people have the impression that people in the Birmingham area live in "shacks." He said that although he had been here before he had not seen the "fine homes" that cover Birmingham.

He said his city is participating in the urban renewal program, which is being adopted in Birmingham. He said areas near the Minnesota State capital building are being redeveloped under the plan.

Rosen, who first took office as a St. Paul commissioner in 1930, is visiting Birmingham for a look at the United States Pipe & Foundry Co.'s facilities. His city has bought many thousands of feet of pipe from the company and law requires that he look into the plant where the pipe is made.

He said he entered politics when he found that he could not sell merchandise to the city himself.

As a tire dealer he said he found that city contracts were controlled by favored companies. He said that with the help of the FBI we cleaned out every tout in St. Paul.

Senator SPARKMAN. I quote:

"A lot of misinformation is being sent our way regarding the Negro situation in the South," Milton Rosen, commissioner of public utilities in St. Paul, Minn. said here today. "We have the impression that Negroes are badly drowntrodden and in a suppressed condition down here," Rosen said. "On this visit I have seen the Negro schools, golf courses, swimming pools, and other utilities. It is a whole lot of misinformation," he said. Rosen said, "The Negro status in the South is much better than the impression northern people have gained. Rabblerousers have told us that Negroes are terribly mistreated," he added. "I think it would be a good thing if the South sent responsible representatives to the North to tell us what is going on." Rosen also pointed out that northern people have the impression that people in the Birmingham area live in shacks. He said that although he had been here before he had not seen the fine homes that cover Birmingham. He said his city is participating in an urban renewal program which is being adopted in Birmingham.

I won't take the trouble to read the rest. I thought it was rather significant that this man from Minnesota on a visit to Birmingham apparently was looking for things and saw things that he never had seen before.

I do not condone mistreatment of anybody at any time and I certainly believe that I have worked as hard as anybody during the 20 years I have been in Congress to improve the lot of all of our people. Senator ERVIN. If the Senator will pardon me, I don't know of any Member of the Senate who has fought harder to try to better housing conditions for colored people as well as for white people. I don't know any Senator that has fought harder than the Senator from Alabama to try to better the economic lot of so many of our people in the South whose per capita income unfortunately is so low.

Senator SPARK MAN. Well, I appreciate those remarks, Mr. Chairman, I am a strong believer, as I have said in my prepared statement here, in the principle of improving economic conditions and thereby strengthen racial relations and remove tensions that otherwise might develop and I have seen development I know from my own experience that it is at least I believe from my own experience that it is the most powerful factor that we can possibly have in removing racial tensions and improving racial conditions.

Economic improvements in the South during the past 20 years have demonstrated this fact. Until the distrust and fear of recent months

caused by outside pressures and agitators we in the South enjoyed the best relations of this century.

If the Congress sincerely wants to improve the welfare of the southern minority, if it wants to prevent or lessen racial discrimination, give us in the South the assistance so greatly needed to enable our school children to receive education on par with that of other sections of the country. And I may say many of the other programs that improve the economic status of all our people.

Forced integration won't make for better education-just the opposite; adequate facilities and well-trained teachers in time will do it. Such a study would also show that the greater the percentage of the minority, the greater is the discrimination. This is not just true of the Negro in the South; it is also true of the Negro in the North, of the Japanese or Chinese in the West, or of the Puerto Rican and the Negro in New York and of minorities wherever they may be.

Since the legislation before you is generally accepted as being aimed at the South, perhaps we should enact laws to provide for Government assistance to resettle any of our Negro citizens that may want to move to other States, especially to those where the percentage of the Negro population is less than 5 or 10 percent of the total population. I may say I have never introduced such legislation as that but it is my understanding that there are bills pending that would seek to do that very thing.

This presently proposed legislation is so far-reaching as to negate the rights guaranteed to persons or individuals under the Constitution.

The legislation would give the Attorney General or certain persons under his supervision the power to intimidate citizens and State and local government officials.

It would hold the accused guilty until he proves himself innocent, the exact reversal of existing judicial practice; it would deprive the accused of trial by jury; it would remove power and control over schools and other institutions from the hands of local people who know the problems best.

There is no individual or group; no Government agency, local or national; no employee, Federal, State or private, that would be free of the whims and fancies, real or imaginary, of the Attorney General and the lawyers he would hire under this legislation.

Nor is the scope of the pending legislation limited to race relations. It embraces all rights extended to the people of this country by the Constitution and by existing laws.

Congressman Huddleston of my State, Alabama, representing the Birmingham district in testimony already given before the House Judiciary Committee has pointed out that the legislation would cut across and dissipate the power spelled out in current labor laws.

It is difficult for me to believe that all proponents of the legislation now before you really intend to vest such great powers in the Attorney General.

As I read the legislation, however, his power would be almost unlimited. Should he decide to exercise that power for political exploitation or selfish party gain, he would have a weapon that could be used to do great damage to existing institutions and existing constitutional rights.

The people of the South, Mr. Chairman, almost to a man, I believe, are opposed to this legislation. Recent decisions of the Supreme Court that would destroy customs of generations and agitation resulting from these decisions already set back for a generation or more friendly relations that had been built between the races.

Legislative agitation on top of that will simply make for an even worse situation.

A people can be pushed too far. I fear this legislation would do just that.

It is easy, Mr. Chairman, to talk about civil rights. Often in their zeal to enact legislation supposed to deal with civil rights many people seem to forget that the basic civil rights which we have so long proclaimed are the rights of every accused person:

1. To be presumed innocent until proved to be guilty.

2. To be clearly informed of charges that are brought against him. 3. To trial by a jury of his peers.

These are the fundamental civil rights.

These great rights were won by our forebears from kings and tyrants over long years of hard effort-and even bloodshed. These rights we have long treasured and have proudly guarded.

To impair them is to strike at the very heart of our system of justice, which we believe to be the world's best.

This legislation requested by the Attorney General, if enacted into law, would violate and tend to break down these fundamental civil rights.

This must not be done.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator ERVIN. I agree with the observations made by the Senator from Alabama in his statement. In my opinion the enactment of these so-called civil rights bills would constitute a great tragedy to the people of this country, both white and colored, even apart from the circumstance that they would enable the Attorney General at his absolute discretion or caprice to bypass and circumvent all substantial constitutional and legal safeguards erected in times past to protect all Americans against governmental tyranny.

The enactment of S. 83 would constitute the second attempt on the part of the Federal Government to reconstruct the South by the force of laws destroying in large measure local government. The proponents of these bilis ignore the plain lesson taught by the previous tragic attempt in reconstruction--namely, that you cannot solve racial problems by force of law and that any attempt to do so multiplies racial discord. History shows that it required at least a full generation for the South to recover from the dire consequences of the tragic era of reconstruction. These bills threaten a repetition of that tragic

era.

In my judgment, a great disservice is being rendered to the country in general and the South in particular by those people who seek to convince colored people that racial problems can be solved by force of law.

Racial problems can be solved only by patience and good will and intelligence on the local level, where men and women live, move and have their being. These solutions cannot be dictated from above, even by dictators wearing judicial robes or occupying legislative

seats.

Mr. WALDEN. Mr. Chairman, would you permit me to make a brief observation?

Senator ERVIN. We will be glad to hear from you.

Mr. WALDEN. I listened very attentively to what the Senator said. In fact I admire him very greatly because a few years ago I did my best to help try to make him vice president of the United States so he knows how I felt toward him personally. But I want to say this. With reference to some of his observations, of course, we realize that you can't change human nature by legislation, but legislation can make it impossible for some people to carry into execution feelings and attitudes that they have with reference to their fellow men and that is all we are asking for. We know this: In order to get the right to serve on juries, that required many years of litigation in different courts. In order to obviate segregation where you live, we had to go through the United States Supreme Court to do that.

That was in the Kentucky case. In order to get the right to sit as jurors we had to go into the courts to do that.

In order to get the right to vote we had to fight the grandfather clauses years ago and then later the white primaries. But for having gone to the courts to do these things, Negroes would be totally disenfrancised under the laws despite the existing law.

We feel that those who are objecting to this type of legislation seem to be more concerned about the feelings of some group than they are about the rights of the others. And these laws are intended primarily so that we could equalize the situation, so that our country can't be accused of preaching one thing in Europe and practicing another thing here.

And the question of race relations, they never arise except in those instances when we are convinced that we have got to insist upon the law in order to get them, and the attention comes on the parts of those people who don't want us to have them.

That is a fact. You have been in the South. I have been in the South all my life, and I know what I am talking about. Senator ERVIN. Have you finished?

Mr. WALDEN. Yes, sir.

Senator ERVIN. What you have stated tends to prove what I have maintained, namely, that the civil rights of everybody can be enforced under existing laws, which preserve the great constitutional and legal safeguards established by the Founding Fathers to secure all Americans against bureaucratic and judicial tyranny. The proponents of these bills propose to vest in one public official, to wit, the Attorney General, the arbitrary power to determine in the first place whether the proposed new proceedings are to be invoked at all. He is to have the absolute power at his uncontrolled discretion or caprice to grant the supposed benefit of the proposed new remedies to some Americans and withhold them from others. And this is to be done in a land where all men are said to stand equal before the law. If the Attorney General should elect to institute the proposed new proceedings, he would automatically strike down all State laws prescribing administrative or other remedies. And he would do this in the name of equity despite the equitable principle that equity will not act in aid of those who have other available remedies. Litigation is a poor way to promote good personal or racial relations.