ness to answer the questions. But as I understand it, the witness is refusing to answer this question on the grounds, one of the grounds, of his privilege under the fifth amendment. Mr. ABRAMS. That is only one of five or six grounds. Senator DODD. One of the several. Mr. ABRAMS. Yes. Senator DODD. And expressed by the witness in answer to the first question asked by counsel. Mr. ABRAMS. That is correct. Senator DODD. In view of the fact that you have been ill, I don't want to burden you with unnecessarily citing over and over again, but I think it must appear with respect to each question that you do claim your privilege under the fifth amendment in view of the ruling which I have made. Otherwise, I would instruct you to answer. I want this to be perfectly clear on the record. Mr. ABRAMS. Are you suggesting, Senator, that I repeat all the grounds or just that one? Senator DODD. No; I think this is enough for the record. I don't know what other questions counsel has but I think it is clear now with respect to this question. Mr. SOURWINE. I think it is quite clear, Mr. Chairman. The witness has read a long list of objections. That list is in the record. When he is declining to answer on the grounds of the objections already made, he means all of those objections unless he indicates otherwise. Mr. ABRAMS. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. And they do include your claim of the fifth amendment against self-incrimination? Mr. ABRAMS. Yes. Mr. BOUDIN. Fifth amendment grounds and the due process and not to be a witness against himself. Senator DODD. Yes; that is why I took a little time on this. The witness has not been well and I think this is a technicality. We are mutually agreed that we are observing it, so let's go along. Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Abrams, have you served as an accountant for the Communist Party, U.S.A.? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds previously given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you served as an accountant for the American Labor Party? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question for the reasons given. Mr. BOUDIN. Off the record for a moment. (Discussion off the record.) Senator DODD. Go ahead. Mr. SOURWINE. I trust that Mr. Boudin understands that his request or my request that something be off the record isn't controlling, doesn't keep it off the record unless the chairman so orders it. Senator DODD. I do so order, if it wasn't off. Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Abrams, have you served as an accountant for the Upper Manhattan Sane Nuclear Policy Committee? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer the question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you served as an accountant for the Greater New York Committee of the National Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you served as an accountant for the Emergency Civil Liberties Committee? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds already given. (Mr. Abrams conferred with counsel.) Mr. SOURWINE. Did you serve as an accountant for former Congressman Vito Marcantonio? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Isn't it true, Mr. Abrams, that you have served as an accountant for all those organizations and individuals and that as an accountant for them, you have been in the position to know the intimate workings of those organizations? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Abrams, are you now a member of the Communist Party, U.S.A.? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question for the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you ever solicited anyone for membership in the Communist Party, U.S.A.? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Are you the same Abrams who, during 1939, lived at 972 East 14th Street, Brooklyn? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. (Mr. Abrams conferred with counsel.) Mr. ABRAMS. I think my counsel is solicitous. Mr. BOUDIN. I can make the statement on the record or off the record on this point. May I go off the record? Or I can state on it, if you wish. Mr. BOUDIN. I am concerned because what an ordinary man can handle in an examination, this witness may not be able to handle in a rapid-fire question and answer-now I have tried to urge the witness and have said so repeatedly to him that he allow a space of time to elapse between Mr. Sourwine's question and his answer. He hasn't been doing it, but I am going to continue to ask him to do so in the interest of his health. Senator DODD. I wish you would ask the Chair. All I know is that you are mumbling while the witness is trying to answer and it is disruptive of an orderly hearing and if you have any requests to make, you make them of the Chair. I will gladly advise Mr. Abrams as a witness that he doesn't need to answer in any rapid-fire order at all. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Mr. SOURWINE. Are you not the Henry Abrams who signed a Communist Party nominating petition in 1939 giving the address 972 East 14th Street, Brooklyn, N.Y.? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons already given. Mr. SOURWINE. For the record, Mr. Chairman, the petition I referred to appears at page 4091 of the election records for that year. Mr. Abrams, have you been a member of the 11th Assembly District Club of the Communist Party which met at 2744 Broadway, New York City? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question for the reasons already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Did you conduct a class in the preparation of income tax forms before the 11th Assembly District Club of the Communist Party, U.S.A., in 1944? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Are you aware that on Tuesday, February 15, 1944, it was announced at a meeting of the 11th Assembly District Club of the Communist Party that you would give such a course? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question for the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Abrams, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Upper West Side Section of the Communist Party of New York City? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question for the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you ever been a member of the Young Communist League? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you ever contributed financially to the Communist Party, U.S.A.? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question for the grounds already given. Senator DODD. Let me interrupt. If there is any time, Mr. Abrams, that you want a recess, or want anything, all you have to do is tell me. Mr. ABRAMS. I could use a glass of water. Senator DODD. Get the witness a glass of water, please. If you want to rest, just say so. I don't want you to feel you are under stress or strain here, any pressure of any kind. You can take plenty of time. I have all the rest of the day, tomorrow, Sunday, Monday. We have a week if we need it, and, incidentally, at this point it might be well to state for the record that since Mr. Boudin, I believe it was, indicated that someone connected with this committee told him that there was some urgency about this hearing because the committee wanted to hold the hearing before the Madison Square Garden meeting, I should say that I am interested in holding the hearing expeditiously, and I believe all members of the subcommittee are, because it appears that Congress may be adjourning or recessing early in July and if we are to suggest remedial legislation to the Congress, the Senate, it is imperative that we move ahead as rapidly as we can. 58474-603 If there has been any feeling that we are hurrying here I don't think there has, but if there has been any, it's been in the interest of legislative responsibility and in no other interest. Proceed, Mr. Sourwine. Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Abrams, have you, this year of 1960, contributed financially to the Communist Party, U.S.A.? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you supported Communist candidates for public office? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Have you ever reported to the Communist Party, U.S.A., or to officials or functionaries of that party, information which you secured as an accountant from examining the books of clients? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Are you the same Henry Abrams who wrote a letter which was quoted in the Daily Worker of September 28, 1958? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Did you not write such a letter and in it say, referring to Benjamin Davis, then national secretary of the Communist Party, U.S.A., who was then running for State senator from the 21st district of New York City, and I quote from the letter: Since Mr. Davis is on the ballot I shall personally recommend to our administrative committee that he receive our support and if he desires it, our official endorsement. Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Do you know William L. Patterson? Mr. ABRAMS. I must refuse to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. William L. Patterson is a leading Communist and a former manager of the Worker. Did you not know him as such? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already given. Mr. SOURWINE. Didn't you attend a dinner in honor of this William L. Patterson on Tuesday, May 15, 1951, at Central Plaza Hall, 111 Second Avenue, New York City? Mr. ABRAMS. I must decline to answer that question on the grounds already_given. Mr. BOUDIN. Mr. Sourwine, Mr. Chairman, may I request a 10minute recess? Senator DODD. Yes. You can have a longer recess if you want it, Mr. Boudin. (A brief recess was taken from 3:07 p.m. to 3:10 p.m.) Senator DODD. Are you ready to resume, Mr. Boudin? Mr. BOUDIN. Yes. Senator DODD. All right. Mr. Abrams? Mr. ABRAMS. Yes. Senator DODD. Do you want any more water? Mr. ABRAMS. No, thank you. Senator DODD. I tell you again that you may ask for a recess or anything you want at any time; take your time. Go ahead, Mr. Sourwine. Mr. SOURWINE. Are you the same Henry Abrams who, in 1958, was chairman of the Independent Socialist Party? Mr. ABRAMS. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds already stated. Mr. SOURWINE. With regard to the letter I spoke about, Mr. Chairman, I have here a photostat of that letter as it appeared in the Worker, Sunday, September 28, 1958. I offer it for the record at this time. Senator DODD. Well, I want Mr. Boudin to see it. Mr. BOUDIN. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that. Senator DODD. Before I rule on it. Mr. BOUDIN. Thank you. Senator DODD. You have no objection to it? Mr. BOUDIN. I must admit that I have an objection to all exhibits going in, in view of the views as to the legislative purpose or lack of legislative purpose. Senator DoDD. But you have no specific objection to this particu lar Mr. BOUDIN. No, I raise no technical objection. Senator DODD. Very well, it may be admitted and made part of the record. (The letter referred to was marked "Exhibit 1" and reads as follows:) EXHIBIT No. 1 [From the Worker, Sunday, Sept. 28, 1958, p. 9] EDITOR, THE WORKER: LETTERS: DAVIS ENDORSEMENT May we correct the impression left by a letter from Hal Keppersmith published in your September 1st issue which seemed to imply that the IndependentSocialist Party refused endorsement or assistance to Mr. Ben Davis' campaign for State Senator in the 21st S.D. No such assistance was ever requested. Our Party's decision, on the basis of certain other independent requests we did receive, was not to endorse candidates for local office until such time as they were on the ballot. Since Mr. Davis is on the ballot I shall personally recommend to our Administrative Committee that he receive our support and, if he desires it, our official endorsement. HENRY H. ABRAMS, Chairman, Independent-Socialist Party. Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Abrams, your wife is Leona Abrams? Mr. ABRAMS. I think I have to refuse to answer that question on the same grounds. Mr. SOURWINE. Is she active in local 55 of the Teachers Union, which is Communist-controlled? Mr. ABRAMS. I would have to refuse to answer that on the same grounds and the additional reason that you are asking me to testify against my wife. Mr. SOURWINE. Is your wife, to your knowledge, a member of the Communist Party, U.S.A.? |