Mr. DERIABIAN. I went to see Galitzin. And Galitzin told me that Father Arseny has been compromised and accused by MGB, an officer in 1953. Mr. SOURWINE. You mean by "compromised"-do you mean as we would say in slang, that they got "something" on him? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. You are right. Some kind of compromise on Father Arseny. Mr. SOURWINE. In other words they blackmailed him into becoming an agent for MGB? Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, it is possible it is possible to say like this, using some kind of blackmail or something. Mr. SOURWINE. All right. Did they explain what this compromise was in Arseny's case? Mr. DERIABIAN. He told me that in 1942, during the German occupation, Father Arseny was in Russian territory in the Ukraine and made anti-Soviet propaganda, because he said that all believers would have to reopen churches, because the Bolsheviks closed the churches. He explained his feelings as anti-Soviet propaganda or anti-Soviet activity. Mr. SOURWINE. By definition it was antistate propaganda? Mr. SOURWINE. Go ahead. Mr. DERIABIAN. And Galitzin showed me a newspaper which contained Father Arseny's article, what it was, and he said Mr. SOURWINE. By Father Arseny's article, you mean a newspaper story about the so-called anti-Soviet speeches? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. Go ahead, Mr. DERIABIAN. And just what Galitzin said was that they were going to arrest Father Arseny, but the committee in Moscow turned it down, because to arrest him it would show they are against the priests, and it was not a good thing to do that. Galitzin said that the Metropolitan Nikolai one time sent to Arseny to invite him to Moscow for instruction, and Father Arseny did not go there, and started to sell his things, and so on and so on. Through another agent, I do not know whom, Galitzin found out that Father Arseny was going to escape to Switzerland, because he was afraid that the police will arrest him. And second, they are going to recruit him. And the Metropolitan sent an order inviting him to Moscow, but he did not go because he knew if he went they would arrest him. And using all of these things, Galitzin told me, in my connection with Metropolitan Nikolai, to ask him, to find more information about Father Arseny, whether he really was going to Switzerland, or to get the Metropolitan Nikolai to help us in our job, for him to become a state security agent, because before that Father Arseny told Galitzin that he would like to be friends-he would like to be friends with Galitzin, but he does not know how he could help the Government or representatives of the Soviet Embassy in his position. And Galitzin told him that some of his friends who had some kind of connection with Austria, some of them working in American headquarters, and so on, maybe he will give some kind of information about them. Actually, after talking with Galitzin I found that Father ArsenyI forget it now-I went to see him-and he opened the door and I asked him to visit me, that is to visit the Metropolitan Nikolai, at 8 o'clock in the evening on the first floor of the Grand Hotel. He was so upset that he did not receive the telegram from him. I told him that Metropolitan Nikolai was upset because Father Arseny did not meet him. He said he did not receive any telegram. Well, anyway, I told him to be in the Grand Hotel at 8 o'clock. He asked me who I am. I told him I am just a member of the Soviet Embassy. He did not know I was an officer of it. Father Mr. SOURWINE. I want to be sure that I understand this. Arseny had been compromised by the possession of this newspaper article about his so-called antistate speeches? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. And using this threat, pressure had been brought on him so as to recruit him as an agent? Mr. DERIABIAN. Right. Mr. SOURWINE. But even so, after having been recruited he was not serving as the organization thought he should? Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right. Mr. SOURWINE. So you took this up with Metropolitan Nikolai? Mr. DERIABIAN. Right. Mr. SOURWINE. Did you take it up with him in the vein of telling him to do something about it or in the line of asking him what to do about it; in other words, did Metropolitan Nikolai himself have any decision to make in this instance? Mr. DERIABIAN. After Metropolitan Nikolai met Father Arseny, I would say the next day, or 2 days, I invited Metropolitan Nikolai to my apartment for tea. Mr. SOURWINE. Wait a minute. This was what time with relation to the meeting between Father Arseny and Metropolitan Nikolai at the Grand Hotel? Mr. DERIABIAN. It was 8 o'clock in the evening, as I said before. Mr. SOURWINE. They had a meeting at the Grand Hotel which you arranged? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. How long after that was the invitation you are now speaking of? Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, I would say 1 or 2 days later. Mr. SOURWINE. All about the same time; it was during the same visit? Mr. DERIABIAN. Oh, yes, yes. Mr. SOURWINE. Go ahead. Mr. DERIABIAN. I invited Metropolitan Nikolai for a tea. And I introduced him to my wife and daughter, and at that time, while he was sitting in my apartment or hotel room, I started to talk to him about Father Arseny, and I told him we have some information that he is going to escape to Switzerland. And I asked Metropolitan Nikolai what he knows about that or what he planned to do with him, or if he will ask him to Moscow or if he will stay in Vienna. Mr. SOURWINE. In other words, this was in the posture where you were talking with Metropolitan Nikolai about a matter that he had to do something about, and you were asking him what he was going to do about it. Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. Go ahead. Mr. DERIABIAN. In this time I was not going to show him that I am a KGB agent, but I show myself-I did not tell him exactly, but I show myself that I have some kind of interest-I show him that I am KGB. The next day Father Arseny again met Metropolitan Nikolai in the evening, I would say, maybe about 3 or 4 hours they were talking. Mr. SOURWINE. Before we go on there, what could Metropolitan Nikolai have done with this man-what could he have directed or ordered Father Arseny to do? Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, actually, I felt at that time, according to my talk with Galitzin I was going to Metropolitan Nikolai, to say to him to find what he is going to do what he is going to do with Father Arseny-if he will invite him to Moscow to find out if he will go there or not. If he stays in Vienna we will see very well he will work for us, for MGB. Mr. SOURWINE. In other words, you were not asking Metropolitan Nikolai to make a decision-you were just asking his opinion? Mr. DERIABIAN. His opinion. Mr. SOURWINE. As a basis for a decision that would be made by the state police? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right, because I could not tell, according to my position-if I started to talk, what are you going to do, and so on and so on-I was going to put on pressure on Metropolitan NikolaiI did not like to do that-according to the telegram. Mr. SOURWINE. The actual situation was this, if I understand you correctly, here was a man who was the second highest in his church. Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. You were talking about orders as an ecclesiastic that he would give to his subordinates? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. Yet you were not asking him what he was going to do you were just getting information from him? Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right. Mr. SOURWINE. He would later be told by the state police what to do? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. In his capacity as an ecclesiastic? Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right. Mr. SOURWINE. Is this the normal thing even in the intrachurch affairs that there is such close control by the state police? Mr. DERIABIAN. I would say, take all churches Mr. SOURWINE. So that actually Mr. DERIABIAN. They were in control of all churches in the Soviet Union. Mr. SOURWINE. This was not any special instance-it was simply the normal way of doing things? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. You got the information from the ecclesiastic and then you decided what it was he was to do? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. Go ahead. Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, 2 days later when the peace conference in Vienna Mr. SOURWINE. You say "2 days later"-is this 2 days after your talk with Metropolitan Nikolai or 2 days after the second meeting between Metropolitan Nikolai and Father Arseny? Mr. DERIABIAN. The meeting between Metropolitan Nikolai and Father Arseny. Two days later when I was in the peace conference, actually it was in that conference in Vienna, I found the time and the place to speak privately with Metropolitan Nikolai, because the peace conference was going to close maybe the next day or 2 days-I asked Metropolitan Nikolai what his plan was for Father Arseny, and I asked Metropolitan Nikolai if he is afraid to go to Moscow. Metropolitan Nikolai replied that he was now sure that Father Arseny would not try to escape to Switzerland, "Because we are believers," he said. He said that he is the chief, just as I am the chief of my part, that he is the boss for his priests, and he believes that he will never escape to Switzerland, "So do not worry about that." Mr. SOURWINE. The real situation here, was it not, that you had gone to Metropolitan Nikolai with a problem he had been told to do something about, and he was now reporting to you that he had done his job? Mr. DERIABIAN. You are correct-you are right. Mr. SOURWINE. Father Arseny was then to stay in Vienna, is that right? Mr. DERIABIAN. Metropolitan Nikolai said that Father Arseny will stay in Vienna. He said nothing to worry about Father Arsenyjust he was worried-Father Arseny was worried himself about his son. He just had one problem. Each father has his son. Mr. SOURWINE. Is this of significance that he was worried about his son? Mr. DERIABIAN. You see, his son-Galitzin asked Father Arseny about the son. The son was in some kind of connection with some Americans, and he was an alcoholic. And it was not good for the father to have a son who is alcoholic and was arrested several times, and married twice, and a hooligan. Mr. SOURWINE. His being connected with the Americans, did that have anything to do with his being married twice and being an alcoholic? Mr. DERIABIAN. Another thing, when Galitzin talked to me, he said find what kind of connections his son had with Americans. Actually, maybe that son never has. Mr. SOURWINE. This was part of the pressure that was being put on Father Arseny? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. All right, go ahead. Mr. DERIABIAN. Metropolitan Nikolai suggested that he hopes it is better to find another successor for religion on Galitzin, and he mentioned his name for me who had what he said is young and maybe he does not understand well what he is doing does not know how to walk and how to be a friend with priests and the like. He was asking me to help him to substitute for Galitzin some older man. Mr. SOURWINE. You mean a successor for Galitzin-you mean in all of his duties or only in his contact with Father Arseny? Mr. DERIABIAN. His contact with Father Arseny. Mr. SOURWINE. He wanted another man to handle Father Arseny? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. In this confidential talk which you had that you are telling us about with Metropolitan Nikolai did you finally disclose that you were with the state police? Mr. DERIABIAN. Then I told him-I said to Metropolitan Nikolai that, "You know who I am." He answered me that he knew-he recognized me, or knew me he knew somewhat in higher or saw some time in higher reports. Mr. SOURWINE. He knew then that you were with the state police? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. I did not ask how he recognized itno question about that. And then I just told him that I received a telegram from Moscow, that I know about him, and I got orders from Moscow to help you here in Vienna. Mr. SOURWINE. You knew about him. You told him that you knew he was an agent? Mr. DERIABIAN. I did not tell him that he is an agent. I told him that I received a telegram from Moscow and I knew that he would arrive here. That Moscow told me. Mr. SOURWINE. That is what I mean, you meant to convey to him indirectly that you knew he was an agent? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Mr. SOURWINE. He knew that is what you were conveying to him? Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. He just asked me, but let us not talk about this. We did not talk any more. Of course, we knew each other. After that, all of this talk, I gave a report to Colonel Kovalev, and I told Galitzin about my conversation with Metropolitan Nikolai, and I told him that the Metropolitan Nikolai said he said he was not worried about Father Arseny. Mr. SOURWINE. Did you tell him that Metropolitan Nikolai wanted another contact with Father Arseny? Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, I told to Kovalev in my report about this. I did not tell about this to Galitzin. Mr. SOURWINE. That would have been out of channels-that was for Kovalev to tell him? Mr. DERIABIAN. Right. Mr. SOURWINE. Did you have any further connection with Metropolitan Nikolai during the peace conference? Mr. DERIABIAN. During the peace conference, one time at a party which Metropolitan Nikolai asked me to organize, he invited Kovacic, Stryker, and Johnson Mr. SOURWINE. Dr. Hewlett Johnson? The Red Dean of Canterbury-he invited him? Mr. SOURWINE. Metropolitan Nikolai invited him? |