in the churches, most of the churches of the Soviet Union, yes, the main churches in the Soviet Union, actually, Stalin was noted as a leader-that is, in their services. This was during the war-long life for Stalin; long life for Stalin.

Mr. SOURWINE. This relaxation then was something dictated by the expediency of the party, rather than something forced by the emotions and will of the people?

Mr. DERIABIAN. You are correct; you are correct.

Mr. SOURWINE. Mr. Deriabian, you spoke earlier of having known personally members of the religious organizations and the clergy who were MGB officers. Did you ever know of any cases where a person known to you to be an MGB officer appeared in the garb of a religious group, wore the clothing of a priest; for instance, a cassock?

Mr. DERIABIAN. In this question, well, I do not remember a name now, because it is very hard to remember.

Mr. SOURWINE. I am not asking you to name persons. I am asking you if you knew there were persons at that time known to you to be MGB officers whom you saw in religious garb?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes, I knew some of them. Actually, I do not remember the year, but I met one who was, I think, in an MGB restaurant, inside of headquarters. That is the MGB headquarters at that time. I did not see him for 2 or 3 years, and then I met him in Moscow. He was wearing a priest habit, the cassock. I said, "What are you doing?"

He said, "Well now, I have served a few years as a priest."

I said, "How did you get that?"

He said, "Well," he didn't say it in so many words, but-"business is business. Do what you are told."

Mr. SOURWINE. Just another assignment?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. Actually, he spent at least 2 years in the seminary, but before that he was working in the fifth directorate at that time. They call it that in section O.

Mr. SOURWINE. So it is just as we will send an Army officer to some civilian school to learn a special skill or to gain special knowledge? Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right.

Mr. SOURWINE. To serve in a particular branch of the Army. In the Soviet Union they send MGB officers to the seminaries to become priests to serve a term as priests while they are still officers?

Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right. You are right.

I believe that he took money from MGB while he was a priest in the seminar.

Mr. SOURWINE. You mentioned that in 1953 you were sent to Vienna ?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. SOURWINE. Who was your chief?

Mr. DERIABIAN. My chief at that time was Col. Evgeny Kovalev. Mr. SOURWINE. What was his position?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Actually, he was the political adviser to the Ambassador.

Mr. SOURWINE. To which Ambassador?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Mr. Ilychev.

Mr. SOURWINE. The Ambassador to Austria?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes. He was actually-his position was political adviser to the Soviet Ambassador.

Mr. SOURWINE. I was just going to ask you if that was his true job

Mr. DERIABIAN. It was his cover.

Mr. SOURWINE. Or whether his real job was something else?

Mr. DERIABIAN. His real job was chief of the Soviet Intelligence of the KGB in Vienna.

Mr. SOURWINE. And he was who?

Mr. DERIABIAN. And his real name is Kravtsov.

Mr. SOURWINE. Would it be correct to say that he was the head of MGB in Vienna?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is correct. He was head of the Soviet intelligence.

Mr. SOURWINE. What was your own job there-your cover job? Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, my cover job was-I was actually detailed to the Ambassador.

Mr. SOURWINE. What was your real job?

Mr. DERIABIAN. My real job was-I was Deputy Chief of Counterintelligence of MGB, Soviet State Security in Vienna.

Mr. SOURWINE. I am not sure that the record is quite clear as to the cover job of Kovalev. Tell us again, even at the risk of repetition. Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, Kovalev was political adviser to the Ambassador. That was his cover job.

Mr. SOURWINE. He actually had a job in the Embassy; he was listed as a diplomat?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right, Mr. Kovalev.

Mr. SOURWINE. He was on the Embassy staff as the political adviser to the Ambassador?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right.

Mr. SOURWINE. And his MGB identity was not open-it was not known?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Not known.

Mr. SOURWINE. That is, outside of the Embassy?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Right.

Mr. SOURWINE. Was it known in the Embassy?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, I would say with 50 or 40 percent, knew that his MGB job was boss in Vienna.

Mr. SOURWINE. Did he have any religious job also?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes, under the scheme he had agents who were working against the Zionists and religious activities in Austria.

Mr. SOURWINE. In other words, the Soviets worked against the Zionists and against the practitioners of the Jewish religion just as much as they do against the Christian religion?

Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right. Actually, those activities were under Colonel Gus'kov.

Mr. SOURWINE. He was under Kovalev?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Under Kovalev.

Mr. SOURWINE. What was his job-what was his cover job?

Mr. DERIABIAN. His cover job was, he was working in a section of

the Embassy as a clerk.

Mr. SOURWINE. His real job was the coordination and repression of religious groups?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Right. And under him was another agent whose name was Galitzin.

Mr. SOURWINE. What was his cover job?

Mr. DERIABIAN. He was administrative officer of the Repatriation Commission of the Embassy.

Mr. SOURWINE. And his real job?

Mr. DERIABIAN. His real job, he was working against Russian emigrés. I know his job was against the Orthodox religion in Vienna.

Mr. SOURWINE. You say he was working against Russian emigrants?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Against Russian emigration.

Mr. SOURWINE. We would say escapees and refugees?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right.

Mr. SOURWINE. Another case of two hats. Under his cover job he was supposed to help these people.

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right; you are right.

Mr. SOURWINE. And in his real job he was working against them? Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right.

Mr. SOURWINE. Did you ever have occasion to deal with Metropolitan Nikolai, the second ranking prelate of the Russian Orthodox Church?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes, I did. In December 1953, Colonel Kovalev received and referred to me a telegram from Alexander Panyushkin

Mr. SOURWINE. That is the same Panyushkin who was previously Ambassador to

Mr. DERIABIAN. To the United States.

Mr. SOURWINE. What was his job at that time, that is, in December?

Mr. DEBIABIAN. At that time he was head, chief of state police in Moscow.

Mr. SOURWINE. How about this telegram; what was in it?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That telegram was advising that there would be a delegation, a Soviet delegation to the so-called Conference for Peace that would arrive shortly in Vienna.

Mr. SOURWINE. You say the Soviet Conference for Peace-you mean the Vienna Peace Conference?

Mr. DERIABIAN. The Vienna Peace Conference, you are right.
Mr. SOURWINE. Go ahead.

Mr. DERIABIAN. And that Soviet delegation included Ilya Ehrenburg, a well-known Soviet writer, other writers, a noted Turkish author, and Metropolitan Nikolai, the archbishop. The telegram advised us to take care of the Turkish author, because it had information that the Turkish counterintelligence might kidnap or kill him. Mr. SOURWINE. You mean the Turkish counterintelligenceMr. DERIABIAN. Counterintelligence, yes.

Mr. SOURWINE. Were you going to kidnap him?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes; that is right. At the same time the telegram said that Metropolitan Nikolai is an agent of KGB.

Mr. SOURWINE. The KGB?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, at that time it was named the other.
Mr. SOURWINE. The NGB?

40362-593

Mr. DERIABIAN. All right.

Mr. SOURWINE. The telegram stated that Metropolitan Nikolai was an agent of State Security?

Mr. DERIABIAN. State Security.

Mr. SOURWINE. You saw this telegram?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes; I saw this.

Mr. SOURWINE. It was given to you in the course of your official duties?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right.

Mr. SOURWINE. All right.

What else did the telegram say?

Mr. DERIABIAN. I read that telegram. And in accordance to that telegram I was going to take care of this Turkish author, and Metropolitan Nikolai; the telegram said that the Metropolitan Nikolai is an agent of the State Security. The telegram stated that he is a highranking archbishop in the Orthodox Church, and try not to make open to other people that he is the agent of the State Security, and to use this material only if necessary, and be very circumspect about the whole thing.

Mr. SOURWINE. In other words, do nothing to compromise his position?

Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right.

Mr. SOURWINE. All right, go ahead. Did this telegram impose duties upon you—as a result of the telegram, were duties imposed upon you?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, the telegram told me to take care of all of the delegation and to meet them. Some of them arrived by train. Some of them arrived by plane. Actually, the Metropolitan Nikolai arrived by plane, and I met him in the airport and put him into my car with another member of the delegation-I do not remember the name now and brought him to the Grand Hotel, Soviet headquarters in Vienna.

Mr. SOURWINE. You met the Metropolitan Nikolai then for the first time?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Then, actually, the first time.

Mr. SOURWINE. When you met his plane?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right.

Mr. SOURWINE. Who introduced you?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, when he arrived in the airport, I introduced myself as a representative from the Soviet Embassy-"I am from the Ambassador to meet members of the Soviet delegation."

With me to meet Nikolai were some other members of the delegation-I do not remember now who. Another car was there. I took them to the Grand Hotel and I gave to the Metropolitan Nikolai a key to a room on the first floor, because during our trip, the Metropolitan Nikolai asked me who will give him a room, so I told him that I would give him everything, that I have the room.

He asked me for the first floor because of his age, he did not like to go upstairs.

Mr. SOURWINE. There are no elevators?

Mr. DERABIAN. There were elevators, but he wanted the first floor. Another thing, it was more convenient for him and for me; if I needed him, I could find him more easily than going to the other floors.

Mr. SOURWINE. Did he know at that time that you were connected with the state police?

Mr. DERIABIN. No, at that time maybe he thought about this thing, but I did not mention to him anything. I told you what the telegram said to me.

Mr. SOURWINE. You did not at that time introduce yourself as a member of the police?

Mr. DERIABIAN. No. I said, "I am an employee from, the Embassy"; that is all.

Mr. SOURWINE. All right, go ahead.

Mr. DERIABIAN. This evening, actually, when the Metropolitan Nikolai took the room, he asked me to find Father Arseny, a Russian Orthodox priest in Vienna. And in this case I went to see Colonel Gus'kov, to find information how I can find the father.

Mr. SOURWINE. Who was Father Arseny?

Mr. DERIABIAN. He was a priest of the Orthodox Church in Vienna. Mr. SOURWINE. You do not know why he wanted him?

Mr. DERIABIAN. The Metropolitan Nikolai felt, and told to me that he sent a telegram to Father Arseny to meet him at the airport and he did not know why Father Arseny did not meet him. I went and asked about the address of Father Arseny.

Mr. SOURWINE. This is interesting. You wanted to find a priest, so the easy way to find him was not to go to the church, but go to the man who was the head of the Zionist and religion section of the state police?

Mr. DERIABIAN. You are right.

Mr. SOURWINE. They had fingers on all of them?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Well they, of course, actually, they have a file on Father Arseny who was a state security agent, too.

Mr. SOURWINE. He was-Arseny was?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Yes.

Mr. SOURWINE. What do you mean by "too"?

Mr. DERIABIAN. As I said before, Nikolai was.

Mr. SOURWINE. Did you discuss this matter with Nikolai?

Mr. DERIABIAN. Actually, before I found Father Arseny, I asked Gus'kov where I could find him, and I told him that Nikolai, Metropolitan Nikolai arrived in Vienna and Gus'kov told me that the Metropolitan Nikolai and he were "brothers." Well, this is language I mean, both of them-they are state security agents. Mr. SOURWINE. Brothers?

Mr. DERIABIAN. He said, "Our brother."

Mr. SOURWINE. That is interesting, like the German Bundestag, SASA. Brothers means they were agents, as you defined it before the state police?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right.

Mr. SOURWINE. Go ahead.

Mr. DERIABIAN. Well, of course, it was just an expression.

Mr. SOURWINE. He knew what he was telling you and you knew what he was telling you?

Mr. DERIABIAN. That is right. You are right. Well, Gus'kov sent me to Galitzin to find Father Arseny, because the file on Father Arseny that he found in the files

Mr. SOURWINE. Did you go to see Galitzin?