any piece of legislation, that does go to affirmative plans to desegregate and to the use of transportation in those plans, I see the continued existence and the growth of rich folks' schools and poor folks' schools; of suburban school systems, where 99 percent of the children go to college, and of school systems where only poor blacks and poor whites go together, because they are paired and they are put together in an

area.

It has always seemed to me that young people learn more from young people than they do from teachers, and that children who grow up playing together, working together, get along better later on in life. I do not think there is any problem for young people. They are not seen running around all over the place seeking their right to go to school wherever they want to, their parents are.

Senator ERVIN. You want to make the young people solve their problem. So you take the little children and deny their rights because of the misconduct of somebody else.

Mr. MORGAN. It grieves me, Senator, that those young people are in a position where they have to. It is not their fault. but we are responsible for making changes so that they can have their rights.

Senator ERVIN. Although it is not their fault, you say you must pick them up, even though they live across the street from the school, and deny them the right to go to that school, and put them in a bus, and keep them in there for miles and miles?

Mr. MORGAN. We did that for 60 years.

Senator ERVIN. You said that is not their fault?

Mr. MORGAN. We sent black children for 60 years.

Senator ERVIN. As I said this morning, there are two kinds of busing. There is one busing for educational purposes-that is where a child is bused to the nearest school available to the children of his age and scholastic attainments, which is designed to enlighten minds. The other class of busing, that is busing for integration purposes, is not designed primarily to enlighten minds, but to mix bodies, to integrate bodies.

Mr. MORGAN. Yes, I think that is right, but some of us believe that the mixing of those bodies, the placing of those people side by side in that school system, has a positive educational value with respect to race, and perhaps with respect to class.

Senator ERVIN. Therefore, you think that educational value, as you see it, is so great that a country that declares in its Constitution that what the Constitution has ordained and established to secure the blessings of liberty should take and destroy liberty in order to require your notions to be implemented?

Mr. MORGAN. No, sir. I believe in a country where you have the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments, as a promise to the citizens who were placed in bondage in this country, that we as a government and as a whole people will enforce the mandates of the promise of equality, and give your children an opportunity to be free in God's promised land. Senator ERVIN. The 14th amendment applies to the States. The equal protection clause applies strictly to the States, and it says that no State shall deprive any person of equal protection of the law. And that is interpreted to mean that no State shall treat in a different manner, persons similarly situated. And here, the modern interpretation, the one you are sustaining in your position, is that the Federal Govern

ment comes in and says to a State in this busing business: You have got to deprive the children in this school district of the equal protection of the laws by treating two groups in different manners, although the two groups are similarly situated. You must say to one group, you can attend your neighborhood schools. You must say to the other group, you cannot attend your neighborhood schools; and there is the Federal Government saying to the school board, you must violate the equal protection clause by treating these two groups of children differently.

Then they say further, the reason that you are required to treat these two groups of children differently is because you must take one group and bus it to schools elsewhere, either to increase the number of children of that race in those neighborhood's schools, or to increase the number of children of that race in schools elsewhere. And with oceans of sophistry, you cannot wipe out the plain fact that that is denying the children who are bused of their right to attend that school on the basis of race and that is a violation of the decision in the Brown case.

Mr. MORGAN. Nor can I erase that, following the Civil War, the War between the States, blacks were brought back into the same sort of a system from which they had left previously, and were deprived of their right to education, and deprived of the right of equal opportunity for employment, and deprived of a right for schools. And now we have Federal court orders to remedy the past wrong. When a Federal court issues an order to remedy a past wrong, then it seems to me the Federal court has the right to rectify whatever existed with respect to discrimination against a class of children.

Senator ERVIN. Would you right the wrongs this way, by depriving the right of liberty to little children who were not responsible for slavery and were not responsible for the right and wrong? You should, in your statement, support my bill, because my bill treats black children and white children and brown children and yellow children exactly alike. It says to each one of them-their parents can select the school that they are to attend. That puts them all in the same place exactly.

Mr. MORGAN. Your bill rejects the history under which we both grew up.

Senator ERVIN. If I have to reject freedom in order to stick to history, I will choose freedom.

Mr. MORGAN. I will choose freedom, also. I just want to mention to you, they are not exactly incompatible, and we ought to find a way to get everybody in the country together. Thank you very much.

Senator ERVIN. Thank you very much. I will say I agreed with you on many things on the Bill of Rights, but it just grieves me, and makes me wish to weep, for the great organization that stood for freedom of the individual, like the Civil Liberties Union, to come out and justify robbing all children, black and white, of their freedom. Mr. MORGAN. Senator, at least, we agree on the first eight.

Senator ERVIN. The record will be held open for 10 days to receive any further statements that anybody may wish to insert. The subcommittee stands in recess.

[Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the subcommittee recessed subject to the call of the Chair.]

APPENDIX

STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

PREPARED STATEMENT BY HON. HOWARD H. BAKER, U.S. SENATOR FROM TENNESSEE

Mr. Chairman, I am grateful for this opportunity to present my views as the Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights continues its consideration of the question of the judicially-ordered busing of school children.

As a sponsor of several legislative proposals designed to relieve the hardships imposed by massive crosstown busing, I join my colleague from Tennessee, Senator Brock, the Chairman and ranking minority member of this Subcommittee, and many other members of the Senate in urging prompt action on this issue. Although a number of pieces of legislation have been introduced in an attempt to bring about an equitable solution to this judicially-contrived situation, the critically important matter has not been dealt with conclusively.

To date, the legislative processs has produced no lasting remedy. Courtordered busing continues in my home State of Tennessee in the cities of Nashville and Memphis and in other cities throughout the land.

I will continue to actively support legislation which I hope will prove effective in dealing with this problem. It seems very likely, however, that a long-term solution can best be achieved through a constitutional amendment.

There have been some attempts in the past to dismiss busing as a racial or regional issue, perennially put forth for its election-year appeal. Black and white parents and children from throughout the country who have personally experienced the continuing family disruption brought about by massive busing rightly dispute that claim.

A September, 1973, Gallup poll reported that although a majority of our citizens favor desegregated public school systems, only 5 percent support the use of busing.

This survey, taken at the beginning of the current school year, indicates that "much of the opposition to busing stems from reasons other than racial animosity. These include the belief that busing is an infringement of personal liberties, worry about busing children to schools in different neighborhoods, and concern that busing will increase local school taxes."

The National Congress of Parents and Teachers has expressed strong opposition to busing, and PTA organizations across the country have registered their support for proposed legislative solutions to the problem.

Delegates to the last PTA national convention adopted a resolution pledging that the organization would "reaffirm its strong commitment to integrated quality education for all children and *** oppose the reassignment of students solely to achieve racial balance."

By now, it should be abundantly clear that to be against busing is not to be against providing a quality education for every child, black and white. To be against busing is to place a common-sense concern for orderly education above the caprice of transportation orders.

Legislation prohibiting the assignment of a child to a certain school because of his race is in keeping with the spirit of our historic advances in the progress of the civil rights struggle.

We must not turn our backs on our national commitment to a plural society and to desegregated public school systems. Rather, we must open our eyes to evaluate the effects of busing on children, their families, and their communities. For thousands of Tennessee families, the problem of busing is not a hypothetical one. It is not something to be viewed on the news broadcasts or read about in the newspapers and then forgotten. It is, regrettably, a fact of life.

I can testify first-hand that many citizens of Nashville and Memphis who are dedicated to the purposes of civil rights strongly oppose massive busing. Some of the members of the community who spoke out most eloquently and forcefully against the evils of forced segregation are equally outspoken against the evils of forced busing.

In cities which have experienced court-ordered busing, there is now a general agreement that enormous hardships have been worked on the children involved, on their parents, and on the financial resources of the community—in that order of importance.

The dislocations of crosstown busing are especially grave because the burden falls hardest on the children themselves. They are the ones who are uprooted from their neighborhoods, forced to get up before daylight, and wait on street corners for buses to carry them past their neighborhood schools to unfamiliar destinations.

For local communities, busing orders have often meant that funds which could be used to make needed improvements in educational facilities or to provide better pay for teachers are instead spent to buy, fuel, and maintain buses. I believe that the current energy crisis and the resultant shortage of gasoline and increase in fuel prices makes unnecessary busing even more indefensible. The theoretical benefits of busing are being increasingly questioned now that busing plans have been translated into reality. The hardships, frustrations, and dislocations are undeniable.

Because of the actual experience of Tennesseans and other citizens in localities which have had to deal with the problem of busing, I believe it is imperative that the proposed solutions receive the priority which they deserve.

I remain convinced that our national goals of providing a good education for every child and assuring equal educational opportunities for all are not furthered by the judicial mischief of busing.

PREPARED STATEMENT BY HON. DEWEY F. BARTLETT, U.S. SENATOR FROM
OKLAHOMA

I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this distinguished committee to present my views concerning forced busing.

However, it disturbs me that these hearings are even necessary. Last April 10, I appeared before another judiciary subcommittee expressing these same views. Yet almost a year has passed and our Nation's metropolitan areas continue to have forced cross-town busing. A recent Gallup poll showed that only 5% of the American people support forced busing as a means to achieve integration in our public schools.

Only 5% of our people support forced busing yet Congress has refused to change our law.

This same Gallup poll showed that only 5% of our people oppose integration. Likewise, let me make it perfectly clear that I too am in favor of integration and believe that the Federal Government has a positive duty to help achieve this goal. But I do not believe that forced busing is an acceptable method to reach that end.

The issue of forced busing became a matter of great concern to many citizens of Oklahoma in the fall of 1969. At that time the first flood of forced busing opposition came to a head in Oklahoma City. As Governor of Oklahoma, I was expected to take a public position. I did not want to be wrong. As I stated, I morally believe in integration. The question was whether forced busing was a proper vehicle to achieve integration.

After much study, it became obvious to me that forced busing was an unjust, unworkable experiment, and not in the best interest of integration, education, or of people, generally. At that time, I issued a detailed statement which said in part:

"Busing, however, requires the school board and/or superintendent to discriminate against some students (of each race) attempting to eliminate the results of long-time discrimination. Discrimination to eliminate discrimination is indefensible and is a cure as sick as the disease itself."

Time has vindicated that conclusion.

Forced busing has created a state of social and educational chaos in Oklahoma's two largest cities, Tulsa and Oklahoma City. It is one issue on which there is little division. The vast majority of people, including Oklahomans, are opposed to busing and cannot understand why it has not been stopped.