been and it was implied that I would not receive a GS-12 within that Division even though vacancies existed. I believe that discrimination practices exist in the GSA, Division of Design and Construction, in the fact that there are no Negro professional employees in the New Construction Branch or the Repair and Improvement Branch and that a very few Negroes in a professional capacity have been employed over the years in this Division. Witness: ALFRED D. DUDLEY. MARVIN R. FULLMER. Mr. DENT. At this point I will address myself to the gentleman known as Mr. Edmonson. What is your name? TESTIMONY OF GLENWOOD M. EDMONSON, STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, DIVISION OF DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION, GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION Mr. EDMONSON. Glenwood M. Edmonson. Mr. DENT. Where are you employed and in what capacity? Mr. EDMONSON. I am employed at the General Services Administration at 7th and D Streets SW., Washington, D.C. Mr. DENT. How long have you been in this employment and in this position? Mr. EDMONSON. Approximately 4 years and 4 months. Mr. DENT. What is your educational background? Mr. EDMONSON. I have a B.S. degree in architectural engineering, Hampton Institute, 1953. Mr. DENT. Will you tell the committee how many branches there are in the Design and Construction Division of region 3 for General Services Administration? Mr. EDMONSON. To the best of my knowledge, Design and Construction Division consists of at least four major branches. I am not sure about one. I don't know whether it is associated with it or whether it is separate, itself. They are the Design and Construction-I beg your pardon, Design and Construction Branch, Repair and Improvement Branch, the New Construction Branch The CHAIRMAN. I suggest the witness raise his voice a little bit more. The acoustics are bad in this room. Mr. EDMONSON. The Design and Construction Branch, the Repair and Improvement Branch, the New Construction Branch, and the Schedules and Services Branch. Mr. DENT. At this point, Mr. Powell, you mentioned a while ago that you had a pertinent question that would fit in at this point. Mr. POWELL. To the best of your knowledge, approximately how many employees in a professional capacity are there in the Division of Design and Construction? Mr. EDMONSON. Negro or white? Mr. POWELL. Negro. Mr. EDMONSON. One. Mr. POWELL. How many altogether? Mr. EDMONSON. Approximately in that particular branch itselfI have no exact figure, but I would estimate approximately 40. But in the Design and Construction Division there are approximately 200 to 220 professional employees, engineers, architects, and still 1 Negro. Mr. POWELL. At this point, Mr. Chairman, I would like unanimous consent to put in the record a survey made by the investigative task force on the breakdown of the classified employees in grades 1 through 18, wage board 1 through 17, total employment number, total number of Negroes, percentage of Negroes, and if these figures are incorrect then I ask the General Services Administration to correct them. Mr. DENT. For the benefit of the members of the subcommittee here, are there enough copies of this to be presented to each so that they may follow through on the questioning? Without objection, this will be made a part of the record at this point. (The document referred to follows:) Spring 1961, General Services Administration CLASSIFIED EMPLOYEES WAGE BOARD EMPLOYEES GS-8 or higher, 48 Negro employees (0.35 percent of total classified employees). WAGE BOARD EMPLOYEES WB-8 or higher, 747 Negro employees (4.7 percent of total wage board employees). Mr. DENT. It shall be assumed that they are correct unless the GSA itself finds that it is an incorrect statement. Mr. PARKER. May we have a copy, please? Mr. DENT. Yes. Mr. POWELL. What is the name of the gentleman? Mr. PARKER. Mr. Parker, personnel officer, region 3, GSA. I am here as one of your witnesses. Mr. DENT. Is that legible? Mr. PARKER. It is all right. Mr. DENT. It is clearly understood, of course, that if in the opinion of the GSA these figures are in error they shall have the opportunity of presenting their corrected statement. You said, I believe, that there was only one Negro professional employee in this Division. Mr. EDMONSON. Yes; to my knowledge, myself. I know of no others at the present. Mr. DENT. What particular classification does this man hold? Mr. DENT. GS-11? Mr. EDMONSON. Yes, sir. Mr. POWELL. Do you know the name of this individual? Mr. EDMONSON. Myself, Mr. Edmonson. Mr. DENT. In the particular Division that you work in, of course, it shows only one in your Division. According to the fact sheet presented by the chairman, Mr. Powell, it appears in GS-11 there are 993 total employment and 17 Negroes, with a percentage ratio of approximately 1.16 percent of the total classified employment as Negro. It appears that your Division has a much lower ratio. Do you know of any reason for this? Mr. EDMONSON. I cannot say honestly that I know of any particular reason. I can only suspect. Mr. DENT. Let me put it this way. Do you know whether any qualified Negroes have applied for positions within these branches, construction, repair, and improvement? Mr. EDMONSON. Yes, there are some Negroes who have applied but I thought their qualifications were adequate. Of course I am not a personnel officer but in some instances they had civil service ratings to substantiate their claims for the particular job and grade level that they sought. Mr. DENT. Does the GSA recruit its employees and if they do, do they do it in an area? Mr. EDMONDSON. Yes, GSA, to my knowledge, does recruit employees. I have known from employees Mr. DENT. Excuse me. One of the subcommittee members requested that you speak a little louder so that you may be heard. Mr. EDMONSON. Yes. GSA does recruit employees, especially on the professional level. They have, to my knowledge, recruited at Maryland University, Virginia Polytechnic Institute, and, of course, there may be other universities or colleges, but these are the people who come to our agency and to our branch as a result of some of these interviews that are being held, our recruitment programs that they carry to the universities or colleges. Mr. DENT. Do you know of any restrictive practices, to your knowledge, that the GSA indulges in? We have a complaint to the effect that Negro architects and engineers, although they may be employed in the agency, have been prohibited from performing certain functions that are properly their functions to perform, such as traveling to certain field construction sites or projects assigned to their particular job area. Mr. EDMONSON. In that original complaint, they had reference to one engineer that was hired as a GS-11, I believe in 1958. They had a construction program going, remodeling, in Bluefield, W. Va., for a post office. He was assigned the air-conditioning project on this job. They made up a party from the office to inspect the site to see what changes would be made, modified, to come up with a realistic estimate and the design for the extension and remodeling of this post office. He was in great hopes of accompanying the group. He was not permitted to go as such. I base this not only on what he told me but on the testimony or, rather, the information that my former chief, who is now deceased, gave to me. When this engineer found he was not being allowed to go, he questioned it, and he must have raised the question among several of the superiors because my superior told me that "Mr. So and So, Mr. Shipp, was making a nuisance of himself, wanting to go to this site. We are going to have to do something about it.' I said, "Why?" He said, "Well, you know why." And that statement was repeated later at another time. Mr. DENT. Did the Negro engineer feel that this was an act of discrimination against him? Mr. EDMONSON. Yes, he did; and he lodged several protests, not only as a result of this particular job but several other jobs, with his superior. Mr. DENT. Did it happen again after the lodging of the protest? Mr. EDMONSON. I believe so, to the best of my knowledge. I believe there was a followup inspection and he was not permitted to go although it was explained to him why he was not permitted to go but he didn't feel that that was sufficient grounds. Over a period of time he lodged other protests and shortly before his transfer from the Agency, he had been promised that he would be allowed to make out-of-town visits to one of the sites. Mr. DENT. Was this transfer one that he asked for? Mr. EDMONSON. Yes; he asked for the transfer because he felt as though he had been unduly discriminated against and that he had no future in the Agency. Mr. DENT. Will you please speak a little louder? The airplanes are giving us competition. Mr. EDMONSON. He sought the transfer because he thought he was being discriminated against and that he had no future in the Agency, although I would like to state that one of his former coworkers approached him first concerning the opening here at this particular job that he took, but it would have been up to him to seek the appointment. Mr. DENT. Do you feel that this is a common or an uncommon practice in this particular Agency? Mr. EDMONSON. In my particular Agency, I think it is a common practice because of the three engineers who have left the Agency, to the best of my knowledge, with good standing and satisfactory work performance. They all had to transfer in order to seek promotions although promotions were added before and after they left. How long have you been a GS-11? I had my second ingrade promotion Mr. DENT. You are in GS-11. Mr. EDMONSON. Over 3 years. December 14, I believe. Mr. DENT. Are you satisfied that your particular step-ups have come according to the normal procedures? Mr. EDMONSON. No, I am not. Mr. DENT. Do you feel that there is a practice which hinders your advancement? Mr. EDMONSON. I do. I believe that it is perhaps somewhat discriminatory but, to the best of my knowledge, the facts may not bear it out, but to the best of my knowledge what I have been able to understand from questioning the various people in the Agency who might know for this particular reason, especially since I had at one time been recommended for an outstanding performance that no one later had any knowledge of, and having very recently been given a very satisfactory performance rating by my chief and in addition to that very recently having been given a GS-12, 90 rating from the Civil Service Commission. Mr. DENT. Do you believe, then, that these prohibitions against full use of the Negro employees or professional staff in effect hinders their efficiency and their drive or desire? Mr. EDMONSON. Yes. In this one particular case I have reference to, the gentlemen who wished to go to Bluefield to check the job. I was the structural engineer on this particular project and we experienced a great deal of difficulty in revising the plans to effect various changes that they had proposed. He mentioned to me several times that he was in grave doubt as to some information concerning certain features of the old plant, the existing office building, which was subsequently borne out from other information that had come into the office as he was working. He mentioned to me at one time "Had I been permitted to have traveled there, I could have saved myself several days' work and perhaps a few hundred dollars." Mr. DENT. Do you mean that he was responsible for the design and the estimates and yet was not permitted to see the project that the design was to fit? Mr. EDMONSON. He was not the only one on there but he was the chief project engineer. He was not, I believe, at the time, shall we say, section chief, but this was primarily his assignment. He felt he had been hampered and hindered from doing a very effective job by not being allowed to travel to the site. Mr. DENT. Was this a remodeling job? Mr. EDMONSON. Yes, it was. Mr. DENT. Is it the usual practice to have a project engineer not view the project before the remodeling plans are designed? Mr. EDMONSON. Not as a rule. The only exception being made to that is perhaps if your supervisor, who is usually in the same professional branch that you are, goes to the site. But I cannot recall offhand, but I am not sure whether an air-conditioning engineer traveled to the site. Mr. DENT. Then it is not an uncommon practice for the chief project engineer not to review the project that he is to redesign? Mr. EDMONSON. Not uncommon, no, but generally he does. Mr. DENT. Your affidavit states that you feel that these exclusions represent racial discriminatory practices. |