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The three floors are connected by stairways. I have not put in anything to carry off the gases. I should like to know whether it would be necessary.

Mr. PATTISON.-Mr. T. T. Lyon, of Michigan, will give you information on that point if you write to him. He read a paper on the subject to us at Windsor last year, in which he recommended a system of ventilation for cold storage. He said opening the windows had been tried, but it was not successful. He suggested something in the way of an underground passage.

Mr. E. D. SMITH.-Mr. Cline raised the question as to whether the temperature of the building would change. My experience is that, without ventilation in the building, the heat of the fruit itself will raise the temperature 10 degrees; so that ventilation is a matter of the utmost importance.

GRAPE GROWING IN ONTARIO.

Mr. M. PETTIT.-When our Secretary asked me to contribute something towards the programme of this meeting I selected this subject. My reason for doing so was that I had sent out a list of questions to nearly all the grape growers of Ontario with the view of obtaining material for something like a history of grape growing in the province, but the returns were so imperfect from some of the counties that at the last moment I abandoned the project, and I have just written a brief paper on the general subject in order to fill my place on the programme.

Grape growing in Ontario is comparatively a new industry, but it has increased more rapidly and with more satisfactory results, than any other branch of fruit growing. It has also done more to bring the possibilities of Ontario prominently before the world than any other branch of fruit growing. When the fruit of the vine was exhibited at the Colonial and Indian exhibition, it was like the return of the spies of olden time from the promised land with the cluster of grapes, an emblem of prosperity betokening a genial climate, fertile soil and a sunny sky; and it did more to dispel that erroneous idea from the minds of the people of Great Britain, that Canada was a country largely composed of snow, ice and Indians, than any single exhibit from our Dominion.

A similar thing was repeated this season, and similar surprise was expressed by the farm delegates, sent ont from Great Britain to spy out our land. We have in Ontario hundreds of thousands of acres, where the soil and climate are suitable for grape growing, commencing with the county of Lambton, down through Essex and Kent and the shore of Lake Erie to the Niagara River; down the river, and up the shore of Lake Ontario, we have Welland, Lincoln, Wentworth and part of Halton, one continuous belt, besides many other parts of counties throughout the province. According to the returns of the enumerators of 1881, Ontario produced, that season, 1,848 tons of grapes. Of that amount Lincoln produced 387 tons, Wentworth 267 tons. Nearly double that amount, or about 500 tons, was shipped the present season from Winona station, grown within a radius of about 2 miles, in the latter county. Welland shipped 222 tons and Essex 130 tons. I have not a doubt but that the returns of 1891 will show a crop of over 20,000 tons. With this rapid increase the important question with the grape grower is, where shall we find an outlet? It is true the markets have developed very fast; where 100 lbs. was taken ten years ago, 2,000 has been demanded the present season, still I question if we can hope for such development for the next ten years. When we inquire into the history of grape growing in older countries, we find that the manufacture of wine is the chief outlet; but before Ontario can hope to become a wine producing country many changes will have to be brought about in the growing of grapes, and preconceived opinions removed. Very little, if any wine, of an established character is produced in Ontario at the present time. The chief reason is that too many varieties of grapes are grown, and these are not planted on a judicious choice of location. Notwithstanding, that over 1,500 varieties are cultivated in Europe, the number of kinds especially adapted to the different localities is very limited. Three or four varieties from the main bulk of the vineyards of the different sections, each province, county or township even having its own special favorites.

This question of adaptability to soil and local climate is one of greatest importance, and should be closely studied by the intelligent grape grower if he would make its cultivation a success. A wine produced, under these circumstances, from grapes that have attained the highest state of perfection, grown, gathered and made on the same principle year after year, must, in time become an established and reliable brand; while the cost of production would be even less than that made from grapes imperfectly grown, in an unsuitable section; while the wine would be many times increased in value. The preconceived opinion of a great many of our people is that Ontario cannot produce choice wine; the consequence is that hundreds of gallons of our best native wines are sold under foreign names and labels. These labels, I am credibly informed are manufactured in Montreal. As grape growing increases and good grapes become more plentiful and cheaper and better brands of wine manufactured, I believe the prejudice of our people will finally yield, and they will rather trust to their own palates than to foreign labels and high prices and the hundreds of thousands of dollars that are annually paid from our Dominion to support the grape growing industries in the south of Europe, will be kept within our own borders.

Mr. E. D. SMITH.—I heartily agree with the greater part of Mr. Pettit's paper, but I do not think there is the danger he anticipates of overstocking the market, even if we do not have the outlet furnished by wine-making. No doubt that is an important industry which will be largely developed in the future, but we must not overlook the fact that the people of Canada do not consume one pound of grapes to ten pounds consumed in the United States, and the people of the United States do not consume one pound to ten pounds consumed in France. In addition, when we consider that we have in this Dominion a boundless territory to be peopled where grapes cannot be grown with success, I have not the least fear of our market becoming overstocked.

THR BEST MODE OF SELLING FRUIT.

QUESTION. Which is the better mode of selling fruit, through agents or direct to retailers? Is the commission business worked as it should be in order to give the grower a fair price for his goods, considering the high prices which are paid by consumers in our near city markets?

Mr. E. D. SMITH (Winona).-So far as my experience goes, I am of opinion that under the system of selling fruit on commission the producer does not get the prices he ought to obtain. I do not like the system at all, and I pursue it as little as possible. I presume, however, that we cannot do away with commission houses in the large cities. We must have some outlet for those fruit growers who do not choose to work up a trade ; but we can do something to prevent the sale of fruit on commission from town to town. Some fruit growers thoughtlessly encouraged the system, forgetting that the commission man has everything in his hands, and the grower has nothing. If any one wants to leave fruit growing or farming for another business I would advise him to go into the commission business, for it is safe and without risk. Our fruits should be sold as far as possible direct to the retailer or the dealer, with whom you could make a straight bargain, and you would know what you were getting for your fruit.

THE VALUE OF AN APPLE ORCHARD.

QUESTION. What is the value per acre of an apple orchard at the age of one, ten and twenty years, respectively, supposing the ground before planting to be worth $100 per acre? Could not this association appoint a committee to prepare a table of such values and to present it at our next meeting?

Mr. M. PETTIT.-Does this question mean the commercial value at the present time of an orchard ten years old, or must you draw on the future for your profits?

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Mr. DEMPSEY.-The value of an orchard depends very much on circumstances. have in my mind an orchard of less than an acre, planted with Duchess of Oldenburgh, which this year produced two hundred barrels of apples, which were sold for more than

three dollars a barrel in the orchard, thus yielding an income of over $600 an acre. Last year the same orchard produced about 150 barrels, which were sold at $2 a barrel. I know of another orchard of about the same size planted with the King of Tompkins. County, which last year produced about two barrels of apples, and this year a little less than a barrel. In the one case I would place a very high value on the orchard and in the other case a very low value. The value depends on the variety. If I had an orchard planted with the most desirable varieties, about 60 or 70 trees to the acre, and about ten years old, I would value it at the lowest calculation at $1,000 an acre. I have myself a little orchard of just one acre, planted with a large number of varieties, which I offered to sell a few years ago for $1,000, and which has never yielded me less than twenty per cent., and to-day that orchard would be cheap at $1,500.

Mr. A. M. SMITH.-I do not think it would be well for Mr. Dempsey's valuation to be taken as an index of the true valuation of orchards in the whole country. In many sections apple growing has not been so profitable as he has suggested for the last four or five years. I know some orchards in the Niagara district which were once very profitable, but which are now being cut down and planted with something else. I think we ought to be very careful not to place too high an estimate on apple orchards I question very much whether many orchards even in the highly favored Niagara district are worth one-fourth of the value stated by Mr. Dempsey.

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Mr. DEMSPEY.-I am speaking for my own section of the country.

Mr. A. M. SMITH.-I do not think, even in the most favored sections for applegrowing, that valuation should be anything like what we ought to place before the country. It might have the effect of inducing people to go into apple culture who know nothing about it and who have not suitable ground for the purpose. I am a nurseryman, and ought, I suppose, to be the last one to speak thus, but in doing so I think I am speaking in the best interests of the country.

Mr. ORR.-I quite agree with Mr. Smith that we ought to be very careful not to make exaggerated statements. That thought occurred to me when I heard our expresident speak of eight or ten tons of grapes to the acre, my experience being that all we can reasonably expect is about three tons. I consider that an apple orchard, with the trees planted one year, would be worth $99 an acre, five years $80 and ten years $75, because the older the trees are the more trouble you would have in digging them out.

The SECRETARY.-I think that statement would convey as erroneous an impression as the statement that apple orchards are worth $1,000 an acre. I think it would be a great mistake if, because of two or three seasons discouragement a man should want to dig up his apple orchard. There are times when fungus attacks the trees, the leaves fall and the fruit falls; but it is not to be expected that this state of things will last forever, and it is quite possible that, when Mr. Orr and others have dug up their apple orchards, there may be room for us who have taken care of ours to grow apples with profit, and we may find after all that they are worth not much less than $1,000 an acre.

Mr. PATTISON.-Being an apple grower in the Niagara peninsula, I think the value of an orchard depends on its location, the varieties grown, and the treatment they receive. My own little orchard of four acres is paying me exceedingly well.

Mr. A. M. SMITH.-Do you value it it $1,000 an acre?

Mr. PATTISON.-Oh, no; but I think those gentlemen who are cutting down their trees because they do not grow fast enough to suit them are making a mistake. After a man has gone to the trouble and expense of buying his trees and setting them out and waiting sixteen years for a crop, I think he is foolish if he takes them out. Let him try some experiment of manuring or something else, and if he perseveres he will probably find that they will yield him an admirable return.

Mr. A. H. PETTIT.-I think Mr. Orr should have criticised our ex-president, and he would have furnished the proof of the large yields of grapes which he mentioned. I believe those yields have been made, and I have always had great confidence in Mr.. Dempsey's wide experience, and I believe he is very near the mark.

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