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"Form," in the athletic world, has now the meaning of "style," and unless modified by an adjective, is understood to mean good style."

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To say that A. B. has “lost his form," would signify that he has fallen off from his old good style of walking, running, rowing, &c. into an inferior one; whilst if a trainer were to say he was "getting C. D. into form," he would imply that he was improving the latter's style.

"Bad form," "poor form," &c. mean "bad style," or "poor style." WALTER RYE. London Athletic Club.

THATCHED CHURCHES (3rd S. xii. 35.) - The query on this subject reminds me of some lines I picked up in Yorkshire many years since. They were said to have been once applicable to Beswick, a village near Beverley:

:

"A thatched church,
A wooden steeple,
A drunken parson,
And wicked people."

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QUERY ON POPE (3rd S. xi. 519, 537.) state from personal experience, that lambs, horses, and cats will lick both hands and face of their master. I know at least four instances of horses doing so, one of a pet lamb, and I never had a cat belonging to me that did not lick my face, and that most elaborately. S. L.

"ENDEAVOUR" AS A REFLECTIVE VERB (3rd S. xi. 448.)- There is a familiar example of this in the collect for the Second Sunday after Easter; and a very accessible one in the Order for the Making of Deacons. Dean Alford refers, in his book on Queen's English (p. 96), to the error in accentuation of which many clergymen are guilty, when they have occasion to use the prayer. I know not how ordination candidates acquit themselves in making answer to the bishop.

ST. SWITHIN.

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PENNY (3rd S. xii. 25.)-The Sanscrit word pannas, according to Eichhoff and Kaltschmidt, means flüchtig, flying, and is in close relationship with the Latin penna, the wing-feather or quill of a bird, from pat, to fly, to fall. Penny is not generally connected with the European languages, but is confined to one branch. It is not a very the Gothic of Ulphilas is skatt (Mark xii. 15, Luke old word. The corresponding word to penny in xx. 24). The English penny is related closely to the German pfennig, where it is a favourite, for they have pfennigmeister = treasurer, or cashier; pfennigfuchser = pinch-penny; pfenniggewicht = pennyweight; pfenniglicht farthing (penny) candle; and pfennigwerth pennyworth.

T. J. BUCKTON.

The querist seems to misunderstand the comparative study of languages, when he asks if the Sanskrit panna is the origin of our word" penny." The origin of our word "penny" is the AngloSaxon pending, pening, penig, and certainly not the Sanskrit panna. It is well known that AngloSaxon is a branch of the Teutonic class of Aryan languages, whilst Sanskrit is a branch of the Indic class. Now Teutonic and Indic are co-ordinate

and not sub-ordinate to each other, and it is quite an erroneous supposition to believe that Sanskrit is the mother tongue of the Aryan languages. We may consult the Sanskrit vocabulary for the origin of a Pali or of a Prâkrit word, but not for the origin of an English or of a Latin word. Of course we may discover some close resemblance between a Sanskrit word and a Latin word, for instance; but then we must conclude that the origin of both words was a word of that Aryan mother-tongue which no longer exists, and of which Indic and Italic are remnants. I think it useless to dwell on this subject, for I suppose that the querist is as well acquainted as myself with comparative philology, but that he has not been careful enough in the wording of his query.

As to the etymology of the word penny, the querist may refer to Turner's History of the Anglo-Saxons, vol. iv. p. 164:—

"We may be curious," says the author, " to inquire into the etymology of the pening. The word occurs for coin in many countries. In the Francotheotisc, it occurs in Otfrid as Pfening; and on the Continent one gold pfenning was declared to be worth ten silver pfennig. It occurs in Icelandic, in the ancient Edda, as penning.

"The Danes still use penge as their term for money or coin, and if we consider the Saxon penig as their only silver coin, we may derive the word from the verb punian, to beat or knock, which may be deemed a term applied to metal coined, similar to the Latin cudere."

The same author (Turner) adds in a note to passage:

this

"Schilter has quoted an author who gives a similar

Does D. think that Sir Walter Scott's quota- etymology from another language, Paenings nomine tion is a paraphrase of this latter line?

JONATHAN BOUCHIER.

pecunia tantum munerata significat, a päna, quod est cudere, signare.'"- -Gloss. Teut. p. 657.

I find the most probable etymology of the word cum cerea impressione," &c. (Dugdale's Antipenny in Chambers's Encyclopædia, art. "Penny": quities of Warwickshire, pub. 1656, p. 138.)

"The name is evidently the same as the German Pfennig, and both words seem to be intimately connected with the old German Pfant, a pledge, and the Latin pendo, to weigh or to pay."

The word penny, Anglo-Saxon pending, pening, penig, Germ. pfennig, Dan. and Swed. pening, is a diminutive, and means probably "little coin." I am unable to decide whether the Sanskrit panna has the same meaning, for the querist does not indicate precisely the passage where it seems to designate a copper value. If it means this, there is certainly a striking, but by all means fortuitous, resemblance between the two words.

G. A. S.

"CONSPICUOUS FROM ITS ABSENCE" (3rd S. xi. 438, 508; xii. 34.)-I believe that the French anticipated us in the application of this epigrammatic expression. "Briller par son absence" has

been familiar to them ever since the Jesuits suc-
ceeded in causing the lives of Arnauld and Pascal
to be excluded from L'Histoire des Hommes illus-
tres by Perrault. It was then, I think, that the
expression became popularised among them. I do
not know whether it has been introduced among
the Germans and Italians.
C. T. RAMAGE.

PALINDROMICS (3rd S. xii. 38.)—

"A lawyer once chose for his motto 'Si nummi immunis.' And in the time of Queen Elizabeth, a noble lady, who had been forbidden to appear at court in consequence of some suspicions against her, took for the device

S. L.

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He took the bread and brake it,
And what the word did make it,
That I believe and take it."

Clark's Eccles. History, 3rd edit. 1675.
S. L.
BISHOP GIFFARD, ETC. (3rd S. xi. 455.)—Joseph
Francis de Malide, Bishop of Avranches, was
translated to Montpellier in 1774. He was one of
the thirty-six bishops who refused to resign his
see in 1801, which all the French bishops were
required to do by the concordat between Pius VII.
and Buonaparte. He died in London.

Renède Moutiers de Mérinville was made Bishop of Dijon in 1787. He, unlike the above, became a démissionaire in 1801. I see in Darling's Cyclopadia Bibliographica, part 1.," Catholick Sermons," in two vols. 8vo, by "Giffard B." VILEC.

SIR JOHN OLDMIXON (3rd S. xi. 399.) — That Sir John's name is not to be found in a list of

on her seal the moon, partly obscured by a cloud, and the knights may be owing to his having been

motto, Ablata at alba.' Taylor, the water-poet, writes-
'Lewd did I live, and evil I did dwel.'"

Specimens of Macaronic Poetry, London,
1831, p. vi.

Why should si nummi immunis be taken as specially the motto of a lawyer? D.

STANSFIELD: SMYTH (3rd S. ix. 413; xii. 27.)From the hasty glance that I have been able to give to the records in reference to this matter, I can only say that the Laird of Bulronne was probably the Laird of Balgone in Haddingtonshire. I have at present no time to work out the question, but F. M. S. will find valuable information in the Inquisitiones Speciales for that county, and also in the Inquisitiones Generales.

GEORGE VERE IRVING.

OLD SEALS ON CHARTERS, ETC. (3rd S. xii. 25.) There is much valuable information on seals to charters, their antiquity, &c., in Dugdale's Antiquities of Warwickshire, and he quotes a passage respecting them from Ingulphus, secretary to the Conqueror when Duke of Normandy, and afterwards Abbot of Croyland, from which I gather that the substance of the seals attached to old charters was wax: "Et chartarum firmitatem

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a

baronet. It is my impression that his eldest son succeeded to his title on Sir John's death. Another of his sons was an officer of the United States navy about thirty years ago. I remember Sir John's widow well. Assisted by her two accomplished daughters, she kept a young ladies' school for many years in this city.

Philadelphia.

BAR-POINT.

CHARLES LAMB'S "ELIA" (3rd S. xi. 193.) — Charles Lamb's sister Mary was "the quaint poetess" who wrote the verses called "The Two Boys," quoted in one of his essays. They are to be found in a volume published early in this century, and entitled Poetry for Children, entirely Original. By the author of Mrs. Leicester's School. title-page might have said authors, as I believe that Charles Lamb contributed to this volume as well as to Mrs. Leicester's School. Philadelphia.

The

UNEDA.

TRANSLATIONS (3rd S. xi. 478.)-The reply to this query is literally nil. Champion's ShahNamch is the only English translation, but that is not in prose. The "Veds" recently issued by Prof. Max Müller is useless alike to the Hindoo and to the European, and is a most costly work to

buy. The funds cannot come from the sale of it, but must have been lavishly provided. The Veds should have been published like Münter's Hebrew Bible and Ulphilas's Moeso-Gothic New Testament, with each separate word translated above or below the text, with a correct version in intelligible Latin or English appended, en regard, after the manner of Bagster's Polyglotts. The Mishna + the Gemara, the Talmud, are all in like manner still desiderata in English. The various commentators on the Koran are the following, according to Sale:-Jallalo'ddin, Al Beidawi, Al Zamakhshari, Yahya, Al Fermadi, Ismael Ebuali, Abu'lkassan Hebatallah, Abu'lfeda, Al Hasan, Al Thalabi, Abu Isak, Al Kessai, Elmacin, Almed Ebn Abd'al Halim, Abu'lfarag, Ebu Shohuah, Mirat Kainat, Turikh Moutakhab, &c. A comparison with France and Germany in this respect places Great Britain on a very low scale indeed.

Streatham Place, S.

T. J. BUCKTON.

MANNA (3rd S. xii. 41.)-Josephus (Antiq. iii. i. 6) gives the best description as known to the Jews of his day. The authors who have since treated of it in an intelligible manner are Buxtorf, Salmasius, Bochart, Scheuchzer, Michaelis, Niebuhr, Faber, and Rosenmuller. The best account is given by Burckhardt, who, speaking of the Wady-el-Sheikh, to the north of Mount Serbal,

says

"In many parts it was thickly overgrown with the tamarisk or tarfa; it is the only valley in the peninsula where this tree grows, at present, in any great quantity, though some small bushes are here and there met with in other parts. It is from the tarfa that the manna is obtained; and it is very strange that the fact should have remained unknown in Europe till M. Seetzen mentioned it in a brief notice of his tour to Sinai, published Arabs Mann, and accurately resembles the description of the manna given in Scripture. In the month of June it drops from the thorns of the tamarisk upon the fallen twigs, leaves, and thorns which always cover the ground beneath the tree in the natural state: the manna is collected before sunrise, when it is coagulated, but it dissolves as soon as the sun shines upon it. The Arabs clean away the leaves, dirt, &c. which adhere to it, boil it, strain it through a coarse piece of cloth, and put it into leathern skins; in this way they preserve it till the following year, and use it, as they do honey, to pour over their unleavened bread, or to dip their bread into. I could not learn that they ever made it into cakes or loaves. The manna is found only in years when copious rains have fallen; sometimes it is not produced at all. I saw none of it among the Arabs, but I obtained a piece of last year's produce at the convent, where, having been kept in the cool shade and moderate temperature of that place, it had become quite solid, and formed a small cake; it became soft when kept some time in the hand, if placed in the sun for five minutes; but when restored to a cool place it became solid again in a quarter of an hour. In the season at which the Arabs gather it, it never acquires that degree of hardness which will allow of its being pounded, as the Israelites are said to have done (Num. xi. 8.) Its colour is dirty yellow, and the piece

in the Mines de l'Orient. This substance is called by the

which I saw was still mixed with bits of tamarisk leaves; its taste is agreeable, somewhat aromatic, and as sweet as honey. If eaten in any considerable quantity, it is said to be slightly purgative. The quantity of manna collected at present, even in seasons when the most copious rains fall, is very trifling, perhaps not amounting to more than 5 or 600 lbs. It is entirely consumed among the Bedouins, who consider it the greatest dainty which their country affords. The harvest is usually in June, and lasts six weeks; sometimes it begins in July." T. J. BUCKTON.

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Streatham Place, S.

LOUIS XVI. ON THE SCAFFOLD (3rd S. xi. 521.) The story told by A SENIOR, respecting the struggles" of Louis XVI. with his executioners, is merely the repetition of a silly figment which was (for obvious purposes) put about at the time, and disproved by abundant evidence: among which none is more to the point than the matter-of-fact narrative of Sanson the executioner. It appears from this, that the sole foundation for the story was in the fact, that when Louis advanced to the front of the scaffold, wishing to address the people, he was forcibly drawn back by the gendarmes under Santerre's orders. Louis XVI., though not a man of strong intellect or strong will, possessed the courage of his family, and maintained his personal dignity through scenes even more terrible than that closing one on the Place de la Concorde. It would be well if some other Frenchmen, whose martyrdom has not gone beyond a comfortable and well-endowed exile, had followed his example in this respect. We might not then have witnessed the attempt of M. Louis Blanc to revive this pitiful slander in our own day.

Garrick Club.

C. G. PROWETT.

LETTER FROM KIMBOLTON LIBRARY (3rd S. xii. 44.)- Your correspondent F. requires the explanation I received when greatly puzzled at finding "the key of the littel gate that leads to Pergo "thus labelled. Pirgo is a manor in the liberty of Havering, and near Havering-atteBower. In the beginning of the seventeenth century it was sold by Henry Grey, Esq., to Sir Thomas Cheke, Knt., grandson of the learned Sir John Cheke. Sir Thomas Cheke married, secondly, Essex, daughter of Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick. Their eldest son was born 1625. Now if this letter were written previous to 1628, would not a very probable solution of its contents be: "My Lord Admirall the Duke of Buckingham

- Steenie, who succeeded Lord Howard of Effingham, and held the dignity till his murder by Felton in 1628. Co: Go: might be Lord Goring, who was a distant cousin of some of the Chekes, I think, and the said Co: Go: may have been one of the officers in the disgraceful expedition of Buckingham to the Isle of Rhé, the "broom men" and "pinne makers " being the Huguenots. Esser Cheke would familiarly sign herself S X

esS-X-ex. Her daughter Essex married, first, Sir Robert Bevil of Chesterton, and, secondly, Edward, second Earl of Manchester, to whom Kimbolton belonged. There is a monument to her memory and virtues in Kimbolton church.

I therefore am persuaded that Lady Cheke wrote the letter to either the first or second Earl of Manchester from Pirgo. THUS.

I should imagine that the letter signed S X. was written by Essex, daughter of Sir Thomas Cheke of Pergo, in Havering, co. Essex, wife of Edward, Lord Kimbolton, the celebrated Parliamentary general. Or it may possibly have been written by the mother of this lady, Essex, Lady Cheke, daughter of Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick. No doubt it refers to some of the troubles of that unhappy period.

E. J. SAGE.

NAUTICAL SAYING (3rd S. xii. 25.)-In the days of evil antipathies--national, as between the French and English; professional, as between soldiers and sailors—a marine was called a gulpin by the sailors; that is, a person who would swallow anything told him. Hence arose the saying "Tell that to the marines." The latter portion was seldom expressed, although implied. An empty bottle was disgracefully styled a marine officer. It is related that a Lieutenant R.N. called out-"Steward, take that marine officer off the table." A marine officer at the table demanded an explanation, or —. "Sir," replied the lieutenant, "it has done its duty, and is willing to do it again."

Stratford, Essex.

J. S.

OYSTERS WITH AN R IN THE MONTH (1st S. xi. 302, 373, 414.)-During the reign of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, at this island, oysters were not eaten by the Grand Masters or the Knights during the summer season, and with many of the

best families this correct rule is observed to the
present time.
W. W.

Malta.

COTTLE FAMILY (3rd S. xi. 376, 529.) - Can P. W. give particulars of the pedigree of Moses Cottle, of Winsley, Wilts, antecedent to 1747 ? He appears, like Cottle the poet, to have borne the same arms as the Cottells of Devon.

C.

Reverend"; and the Moderator of the General Assembly of that Church, in his address at the conclusion of their annual sitting, names the members-part of whom, the elders, are laymen"Right Reverend and Right Honourable." Possibly some of the Scotch readers of "N. & Q." will be able to explain the reason of such appellation. G.

Edinburgh.

CHEVERS FAMILY (3rd S. x. 462; xii. 56.) — According to the last edition of Burke's Landed Gentry, Edward Chevers, Viscount Mount Leinster, had two brothers: Andrew, whose line is extinct; and John, ancestor of the Killian family. Here no Jerome appears, though MR. D'ALTON called him the only brother in his communication to "N. & Q."

In that communication your late respected correspondent implies that the name Killian was given to his estate by the Chevers, transplanted by Cromwell in memory of the parish of Killian, or Killyan, in Wexford, with which his family had been formerly connected. This is an error. The name belongs not only to the estate, but to the parish and barony of the county of Galway in which it is situate: to the former, no doubt, from a very early date; to the barony from August 6, 1585, when it was formed at the time of Sir John Perrot's composition. then the chief seat of Conor Oge O'Kelly, "compettitor for the name of tanestshipe of O'Kelly." In his Army List of James II., MR. D'ALTON makes the Killian family descend from Walter naught in 1676. As to this Walter Chevers, who Chevers of Monkstown, transplanted to Conwas transplanted in 1653; and as to John of MayCromwellian Settlement (p. 68), and in the records ston, or Macetown; see some particulars in the therein mentioned.

Killian was

S. P. V.

BRIGNOLES (3rd S. xi. 455.)—MR. J. H. DIXON. who resides at Florence, says of this name, "It is certainly not Italian "; yet a distinguished person of that name, Ct. Brignole-Sale, has for years been Sardinian ambassador at the court of France during King Louis-Philippe's reign. I have an engraved portrait, by Jean Benoit Castiglione OLIVER CROMWELL (3rd S. xi. 207.)—The Clay-gr. xxi. p. 35), representing Antony Julius Brig(alias il Grechetto), 1616-1676 (Bartsch, P., pole family, descended from one of the daughters nole-Sale, Marquis Groppoli, in Tuscany, born of of the Protector, have resided in this city for about a century and a half. Much information 1605; who, after having held various honourable a patrician and senatorial Genoese family, July 23, respecting Cromwell's ancestors and posterity is public employments in his own country, and havto be found in the London Magazine for May, ing had the misfortune to lose his wife, thought himself called to the ecclesiastical state. Later, at the age of forty-seven, he became a member of the Society of Jesuits, March 11, 1652. He had previously written several works; but from the time of his taking holy orders, he devoted all his thoughts to pulpit eloquence. He died in 1665.

1774.

Philadelphia.

UNEDA.

STYLE OF "REVEREND" AND "VERY REVEREND" (3rd S. xii. 26.)-In Scotland the Principals of the Universities, who are always clergymen of the Established Church, have the title of "Very

Brignole-Sale has been praised by many authors, viz. by Maracci, by Crescimbeni, and by Quadrio. In the work called Glorie degli Incogniti (p. 67), is his portrait, with the following distich:

MERIDIAN RINGS (3rd S. xi. 381, 470.)-Rings to ascertain the time are regularly sold at the Swiss fairs. They are called cadrans. The price of one is 20 centimes. They are of the kind mentioned in the French Cyclopédie, and the hour is told by un trou, par lequel on fait passer un Mazzuchelli speaks of several works of Brignole-kind has lately been patented at Paris. It is not rayon du soleil." A superior instrument of this

"Sal erit insulsum, salibus nisi condiat illud Hic Ligur, ex ipso qui Sale nomen habet."

Sale, both sacred and profane, in prose and verse. His life has been written by Father Visconti Memorie delle virtù del P. Antonio Julio BrignoleSale, Milan, 1666. His principal works are: Le Instabilità dell' Ingegno, etc., Bologna, 1635; Tacito abburattato, etc., Venice, 1636; Maria Maddalena peccatrice, etc., Genoa, 1636; Il Carnovale di Gottilvannio Salliebregno (his anagram), Venice, 1639-1641, &c. &c.

P. A. L.

DOLE (3rd S. xii. 55.) — I have thought of another instance of the use of this word by a modern author, in addition to the one I quoted from Tennyson:

"No need of sulphureous lake,

No need of fiery coal,

But only that crowd of human kind
Who wanted pity and dole-
In everlasting retrospect-
Will wring my sinful soul!"
Hood, Lady's Dream.
JONATHAN BOUCHIER.

THE THREE PIGEONS (3rd S. xii. 25.)-I quite agree with N. B. C. in his conjecture that the sign of "The Three Pigeons" had originally a religious significance. The idea of this sign appears to have been derived from Gen. viii. 8-12, where, in our Authorised Version, Noah is represented as thrice sending out the dove. The Hebrew word rendered "dove" might quite as correctly be rendered "pigeon," and is so rendered Lev. v. 7, &c. To this we may add that, if we refer to the passage in question as it stands in the Vulgate, we shall there find that, through the want of the definite article in Latin, there is nothing which decidedly indicates that Noah thrice sent forth the same pigeon; it might rather appear to the cursory reader that Noah successively sent forth three pigeons. In such an interpretation, I would submit, the sign of "The Three Pigeons" had its origin.

Whether dove or pigeon is the more proper rendering of the original Hebrew (yonah), is hardly a question to be discussed in "N. & Q.," and I strenuously disclaim any wish to raise the controversy in your pages. It may be well however to observe that, in referring to Gen. viii. in the French version of Ostervald, we find "pigeon" throughout (not to mention other authorities). And it would appear from Luther's version, that he regarded the passage as really implying that Noah sent forth three doves or pigeons successively, not the same bird thrice.

SCHIN.

a ring, but a flat graduated instrument. One end is slightly elevated, and has a small hole through which the sun-rays pass. The cost is about eight francs. No doubt it is sold in London. S. J.

NOAH (3rd S. xi. 470.)—A German gentleman, who is studying our language, has favoured me with a prose rendering of a song on Noah. The English is very bad. The song is as follows:

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"Noah, after having so much water, wished that Jupiter would send him something better. He had hardly finished his prayer, when he found a beautiful young lady I follow my friends MS.] with a golden cup standing beside him. Noah said, Who are you, my dear? She answered, 'I am Hebe, and I've brought you some nectar to taste!' Noah tasted, and was enraptured, and said: 'Do give me the receipt.' Hebe then gave Noah some vine cuttings, and told him how to plant them; and gave him all instructions necessary as to gathering the grapes, pressing, and so on. And thus was produced wine, which you see is the same drink as that which is called by the gods Nectar."

for the correctness of the translation. The song As I have not seen the original, I cannot vouch I am told is a favourite with the German students, and is from a collection wherein Gambrinus and Noah are equally honoured. J. H. D.

THE LATE REV. R. H. BARHAM (3rd S. xi. 476, 531.)-Two pieces, called "The Dark-looking Man," and "Rich and Poor, or Saint and Sinner,' were certainly from the pen of Mr. Barham, though not found in his works. They appeared in The Globe under the signature of "Peter Peppercorn, M.D.," which was the signature appended to the parody on "The Burial of Sir John Moore." The parody was however not wholly original, but founded on one written by the far-famed "Wags of Durham." The parody of the " Wags was sent to The Mirror newspaper (since defunct), in which it never was inserted, but by some means or other it got into Peter Peppercorn's hands, and by him was published, with many alterations and improvements, in The Globe and Traveller. In its original state it was too local, and abounded in allusions that could only interest a citizen of Durham.

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