the proposers of them, while some are introduced apparently for no other purpose than to find out how much money can be got out of railroads to defeat the bills; simply what might be termed "black mail" bills. The facts are notorious, that railroads cannot get even-handed justice from an ordinary jury in our courts. The decisions are almost invariably against the railroad company, without much regard to law or evidence. Land grants are another source of complaints. Speculators have made money out of them, the government swindled, and such like surface arguments to prejudice the public mind. True, some unworthy examples may be cited. But if all are to be condemned for the faults of a few, and this theory carried out into other branches of business, we might refuse to have money because some persons have counterfeited the genuine, or some thieves are in prison for stealing money. Are not swindles practiced in other business as well as land grants to railroads? If roads are needed to open up new countries where traffic is to be made by reason of opening out Government lands, should not the Government aid in adding value to its own domain? If aid was given in the shape of money instead of public lands, would not the swindler get hold of the money in time to spend it, before the road reached into that country, that must remain in undisturbed solitude unless the road is built. What did the Government lose by the grant to the Illinois Central? The alternate section left to the Government was worth four times as much after the road was built as it was before. Therefore, if the country could not be developed without the road and the road could not be built without the land-grant, and the Government could sell their remaining half at twice as much as the whole was worth, besides opening up millions of acres outside of these grants, what cause is there of complaint? Even if the company did make something out of its part of the land, should the Government refuse to aid in building roads through its unbroken territories, where it would be financial madness to locate and build roads with private means, where there would be no traffic for years to come? Government cannot expect private capital to open up the country for its benefit; therefore the best way to aid them is by granting public lands and getting back in a few years more money in the Treasury for what is left than the whole was worth. ELMORE H. WALKER. Mr. Chairman, the two more prominent competing routes for the interior trade and commerce between the great northwest and the sea-board will be by the lakes and the Erie Canal, through the State of New York, and by the lakes and the Saint Lawrence River, when the Welland and Saint Lawrence Canals shall have been enlarged. The latter route can now pass vessels through the Welland Canal of four hundred to four hundred and fifty tons measurement, carrying six hundred to seven hundred tons cargo. The proposed enlargement of both the Welland and Saint Lawrence Canals for the passage of vessels of twelve hundred tons measurement, carrying about sixteen hundred tons cargo each, is expected to be completed within three years. And when that work shall have been finished and opened for business, the State of New York must be prepared to meet a competition by the Saint Lawrence route, at a rate of transportation from Chicago to Montreal not exceeding an average of $3.50 per ton of 2,000 pounds, which is equal to a small fraction over ten cents per bushel of sixty pounds. By the CHAIRMAN: Question. Why do you make that statement? Answer. Because the rate of freight from Chicago to Kingston has in the past, with the present imperfect facilities, been frequently 10 cents. per bushel and less. When the Welland and Saint Lawrence Canals shall have been enlarged to a capacity for ships of twelve hundred tons measurement, carrying about sixteen hundred tons, the cost of transportation, as compared with that in the past, will be largely diminished, giving the ability to transport grain from Chicago to Montreal at a profit for 10 cents per bushel of 60 pounds, or less than 10 cents. Q. What do you regard the relative advantages of Montreal and New York for foreign shipments? A. Equally good for seven months of the year, or during the season of open lake and river navigation. By Mr. CONKLING: Q. Including insurance? A. Yes, sir. The rates of insurance from Montreal to foreign ports have been in the past the same as from New York, except in April and November, when the rates from Montreal are a very little higher than from New York. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. And your estimate is that, with the improved Welland and Saint Lawrence Canals, grain could be transported from Chicago to Montreal for 10 cents per bushel? A. It could be done at an average rate of 10 cents per bushel with a profit to the carrier. The average rate of transportation from Chicago to New York via the lakes and the Erie Canal for the last seven years, including State tolls, and exclusive of Buffalo shipping and transfer charges, has been $7.23 for wheat and $6.92 for corn per ton of 2,000 pounds, or an average of about $6 per ton, at which rates carriers have made little or no profit on the canal portion of the route. With all large vessels on the lakes, and an enlarged Erie Canal for boats of six hundred tons burden, the cost of transportation from Chicago to New York would not exceed $3 per ton of 2,000 pounds. Q. What is your information as to the relative value in New York of wheat shipped from Chicago by water and by rail? A. If the grain is in good merchantable order when shipped, there is very little if any difference in the value of the same grades of wheat. Shippers prefer to take boat-loads of grain for export that have arrived in good order by canal, as it is a good indication that it will remain in good order during the ocean voyage. It is also more convenient for exporters to have the grain in the larger bulk of canal-boat loads than in the smaller bulk of car-loads. During specific portions of the year, when grain in large bulk usually goes through what is called the sweating process, that moved by rail is generally preferred, on account of its generally better merchantable condition. New corn is less liable to heat when moved by rail than by water, on account of the smaller quantity in a body together, and the greater celerity of movement. If grain is well cured in the grower's granaries before shipment, the value, whether transported by rail or water, is about the same at sea-board ports. Corn however, is garnered in open cribs, exposed to all kinds of weather, and when shelled after being out all winter, contains a large percentage of moisture, and if put in large bodies in elevator bins, or in large vessels or canal-boats, is generally liable to heat, which diminishes the weight and deteriorates the general condition, causing loss to the middle-men handling it, and selling for less money at sea-board ports when shipped in this condition by water than if shipped by rail in smaller aggregated quantities, diminishing the chances of damage. The grower, when shelling corn in this moist condition, gets pay for three or four pounds of moisture, which is so much premium for always selling it in a moist condition, but the consequence is generally a serious loss to the middlemen between the grower and consumer. Corn is, when in this moist condition, largely shipped from the interior to the sea-board by rail, and sells for more money, it being generally in better merchantable condition on delivery at the sea-board than when shipped by the water-route in moist condition. But, if sold for export, the exporter takes the risk of its heating on the passage to Europe, and not the middle-men between the grower in the West and the exporter at the sea-board. But as soon as the corn has been thoroughly cured and freed from the danger of heating in passage by water, both the middle-men and the exporters prefer that received by the water-route at the same price. It sometimes commands more money when in merchantable condition than if received by rail. Q. What is the relative value of corn dried by the drying process in Buffalo and that not dried when it reaches this market? A. It depends upon what the condition of the corn was when the drying process was commenced. If it had not been previously damaged it would probably command as much and sometimes more than that undried. It, however, does not generally command enough greater price when dried, even if in good order before drying, to make good the diminished freight and the expense of drying; hence very little corn undergoes the drying process unless that already damaged by being heated, or that which has so much moisture as to be in danger of heating badly on the passage from Buffalo to New York. The renovating process is sometimes limited to blowing and screening, which temporarily checks the heating. By Mr. CONKLING: Q. By weight or measure? A. By weight. Q. Would it also by measure? A. I cannot say as to that, because the sales here are always made by weight, at 56 pounds to the bushel. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. Is there not a diminution in both weight and measurement? A. There would be a diminution in both weight and measurement by the drying process, and on the former from one to four or five pounds per bushel, usually one or two pounds. By Mr. CONKLING : Q. With greater diminution of weight than measurement? A. I think so. By Mr. SHERMAN : Q. You say the price is no less? A. If the corn had not been previously damaged by heating or by water, it would rather improve the condition. By the CHAIRMAN : Q. Is corn damaged by being artificially dried? A. It would not be damaged by a properly constructed and carefully regulated dryer. Some of the dryers burn the corn and give it an unpleasant odor which cannot be eradicated; but some of them do not. By Mr. NORWOOD: Q. You speak of the value of corn for food, I suppose, and not seed? A. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. What is the object of drying corn in good condition at Buffalo? A. That is sometimes done to prevent its being damaged. It is also dried when in good condition for manufacturing into meal. This drying process prevents the souring of the meal after grinding, so that it may be shipped to any part of the world without damaging on the voyage. Q. Do you know about the cost of that drying process? A. I do not know what the present charge is. I have paid as high as ten cents per bushel for kiln-drying corn, but I think with the competition among dryers the charge is now about two cents per bushel, varying with the amount of moisture taken out; but there is the loss to the owner of the corn of the shrinkage over and above the charge for drying. Q. Will you speak of the terminal facilities, here or will some other member of the produce exchange give us some information on that point? A. Perhaps some other gentleman will be more familiar with that, sir, than I am. By Mr. CONKLING: Q. Does drying corn destroy the germinating faculty? Q. Does it not aim to go far enough to do that? A. It usually will in some of the dryers if not most of them, but in some the moisture is drawn out instead of being driven in. In these dryers the temperature is not high enough to destroy the germinating faculty of the corn. I would like to state in general terms that, in my view, the question of internal transportation is the most important one. to be solved now and in the remaining portion of this century. The ' movement of through freight East and West by all routes north of the Ohio River is about thirteen million tons per annum, in the ratio of about three tons moved eastward to one ton westward; and of local freight by all these through routes about twenty million tons per annum; therefore, the local and through freight aggregates by the through routes alone about thirty-three million tons per annum, including both rail and water routes. The rail rates on fourth-class freight from Chicago and other terminal points in the West on about the same meridian to the sea-board are eight to ten dollars per ton, during the season of open lake and canal navigation, and from twelve to thirteen dollars per ton during that portion of the year when the water-lines are closed by frost. The summer rate by rail is about nine mills per ton per mile, and the winter rail-rate is in the ratio of 1.214 of a cent per ton per mile. The summer rail-rate from Chicago to Philadelphia, New York, and Boston has been respectively $8, $9 and $10 per ton, and the winter rate $11, $12 and $13 per ton, respectively. The water rate for the last seven years, from Chicago to New York, via the lakes, the Erie Canal, and the Hudson River, has averaged $7.23 per ton on wheat, and $6.94 per ton on corn, including the State canal tolls, and excluding the shipping and transfer charges at Buffalo. The difference in the average price of wheat and corn is caused by the higher State tolls on wheat than on corn. The average freight on grain has been for the last seven years about $7 per ton from Chicago to New York, by the water-line, exclusive of Buffalo shipping and transfer charges, and including the State tolls and the carrier's profits. The rail rate cannot on the average be less than $9 per ton from Chicago to New York, if all the freight is transported at that rate. If the Central Railway of New York should carry all its freight at the rate of three-quarters of a cent per ton per mile, on its mileage of 1872, it would not have earnings sufficient to pay its running expeuses, and could not pay either interest or dividends. If it should carry all its freight at the rate of twelve cents per bushel of sixty pounds of wheat, which is at the rate of nine mills and a small fraction of a mill per ton per mile, it could pay running expenses, interest, rent of leased roads, and would have only about $200,000 over and above that with which to pay dividends, aggregating about $8,000,000 annually; so that, practically, unless some means not now in use can be devised to diminish the cost of rail transportation, the people cannot obtain the relief they seek from onerous charges for the transportation of their products through the medium of railways. With all large class vessels navigating the lakes, say of two thousand tons capacity each, property can be transported from Chicago to Buffalo for $1.50 per ton, including the carrier's profits; and with an enlarged Erie Canal, for boats of six hundred tous carrying capacity, the rate from Buffalo to New York, including nominal State tolls and the carrier's profits, could be reduced to an average of $1.50 per ton, or $3 per ton from Chicago to New York. With steam on the lakes and the Erie Canal and the Hudson River, the time of transit from Chicago to New York need not be more than ten to eleven days. These improvements and changes once made, the cost by the waterline will be six to seven dollars less than that now charged as the summer rail-rate, and this difference in cost on a through movement of thirteen million tons per annum would be from sixty-five to ninety-one million dollars per annum. But the movement will be largely by rail in any event. The rail routes will continue to divide the present movement with the water-lines, as well as its annual increase. The live stock trade, including the products of animals, comprises about one-ninth of the through tonnage of the five great through-lines of railways, and is about one-sixth of the eastward through-movement. Besides, there are large classes of other commodities that will go by rail in any event, including all the lighter commodities that will bear the higher rail charges. The greater celerity of movement by rail, the sav ing of interest and insurance, will always insure a large patronage of the railways. But in a very large proportion of the heavier classes of freight there would be a saving by the using of the water-lines, as they may be improved, of five to six dollars per ton. The through-tonnage, which is now about thirteen million tons, will, before the end of the present century, probably be swelled to fifty million tons. The population of this country from 1790 to 1860 has been increased approximately in the ratio of three per cent. per annum compounded. During the period of the war from 1860 to 1870 there was a falling off in immigration and a large loss in population from the civil strife between the North and the South. The previous ratio of increase was not maintained during that period. Taking the population by the census of 1870 and computing the increase in the same ratio as that from 1790 to 1860, the population at the end of the century will be about ninety-eight millions, and in 1903 will be one hundred millious. The westward movement of |