delayed the manufacture of more of the | perform a service within the walls of the present class of powder among other rea- prison, but were merely allowed to visit sons on account of the introduction of the the prisoners in their cells; and in others, Martini-Henry rifle-it being very doubt- again, no salaries whatever were given, ful whether the fine grain powder would although the ministers were at liberty be suitable for that weapon. No difficulty to visit the gaols. He ventured to subwhatever existed in making powder for mit to their Lordships that this was not small arms in any quantity when re- acting according to the spirit in which the quired. The consumption of small arms, Act of 1863 was passed-such a state of powder compared with that for great things was neither politically sound nor guns was exceedingly small, being only just-it was contrary to the principle about 3,700 barrels per annum. He that the workman is worthy of his hire. regretted that so much had been said The object of the present measure was and written upon this subject by those to remedy the defects of the Act of 1863, who were only imperfectly acquainted by authorizing the Secretary of State, with what passed in the Department. upon complaint being made to him that the number of prisoners confined in any prison, belonging to any religious persuasion other than the Church of England, was so great as to require the ministration of a minister of their own persuasion, and that the prison authorities had failed to appoint such a minister under the power given them by the Act of 1863, to require the prison authority to appoint such a minister. The power of the Secretary of State was restricted to the case of prisons in which the average number of prisoners of the particular denomination during the three preceding years had not been less than 10. The minister so appointed was, so far as Order of the Day for the Second Read- circumstances would allow, to be placed ing, read.

Motion, as amended, agreed to.
Address for-

"1. Amount of serviceable cannon Powder of all sorts in store on the 30th September 1868, specifying the quantities under the heads of L.G., R.L.G., Pellet, and Pebble Powder, and distinguishing the amount in made-up ammuni

tion:

"2. Ditto, on 30th September 1870: "3. Amount of R.F.G. Powder for small arms on 30th September 1870."—(Parl. Paper, No. 71.)

PRISON MINISTERS BILL~(No. 37.) (The Earl of Morley.)

SECOND READING.

THE EARL OF MORLEY, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, that its object was to extend the principle affirmed by Parliament in the Prison Ministers Act of 1863, which in practice had not worked satisfactorily. By that Act the prison authorities were permitted, in cases where the number of prisoners of any particular creed was such as to justify such a proceeding, to appoint and pay a minister of their persuasion to visit such prisoners. That measure was, however, a purely permissive Bill, and it had been found by a Committee of the House of Commons

which sat last year that its provisions had by no means been uniformly adopted throughout the country, and the results expected from it had been far from being realized. Thus, in some prisons, ministers of different religious creeds were appointed, paid, and placed exactly upon the same footing as the Church of England chaplains; whereas in others, although such ministers were appointed and paid, they were not permitted to

in exactly the same status as the Church of England chaplain of the prison, and was to be paid a salary not less than that given in a schedule attached to the Bill, ranging from £25 where the prisoners to whom he has to administer do not exceed 20; to £150 where such prisoners number between 200 and 300; and £200 where they exceed 300. The Secretary of State was further authorized to make regulations with regard to such ministers, which were to take effect after they had been laid for a certain period before Parliament.

Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."

(The Earl of Morley.)

EARL DELAWARR said, he strongly approved of the Bill, which was directed against a state of things which was a scandal and reproach to our legislation. The Bill, if passed, would be a great step towards securing perfect religious equality. It was disgraceful that the prison authorities should have the power of refusing to remunerate the Roman Catholic priests who attended to

the spiritual wants of prisoners profess- | decide whether a Roman Catholic chaping that faith. He complained, however, lain should be enabled to celebrate high that the Bill made no provision for the mass in prisons? payment of Roman Catholic priests in cases where the annual average number of prisoners for three years was below 10. Another defect in the measure was that it did not name the persons by whom complaint was to be made to the Secretary of State in cases where no Nonconformist minister had been appointed to gaols. But unless such a provision was inserted in Committee there was a risk that this Bill likewise would prove inoperative, because no complaints would be made.

remarked that

remedy. He apprehended that it would | sight appeared to contain some rather be necessary in extreme cases only to startling provisions. He promised to provide additional buildings in goals; examine it more closely before the but, at the same time, he thought an Motion was repeated. opportunity should be given to Parliament of discussing whether, in any particular instance, the Secretary of State had gone beyond the proper limits contemplated by the Act, or had charged the county rates unduly for the erection of prison chapels.

LORD PENZANCE some clauses of the Bill were rather more comprehensive than the noble Duke seemed to think, and joined in the request for postponement.

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND withdrew

If Parliament his Motion.

ex

was not to have some veto on cessive expenditure, he did not understand why the rules and regulations were to lie for 40 days on the Table before coming into operation. There ought to be some special provision that either House should have the power, either by an Address to the Crown, or by a direct negative, to stop expenditure of which it did not approve.

VISCOUNT HALIFAX stated that the object of requiring the rules and regulations to be laid upon the Table was that either House of Parliament might, if so disposed, interfere before they came into force.

Motion agreed to. Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Tuesday next.

COUNTY PROPERTY BILL-(No. 35.)

(The Duke of Richmond.)

SECOND READING PUT OFF.

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND, in moving that the Bill be now read the second time, said, it required very little explanation. It seemed that property acquired by Act of Parliament by justices of the peace might be vested in the clerks of the peace, and there was an Act of the present reign which empowered the vesting of such property. He believed, however, that it had been found that property that virtually belonged to the county, concerning which there was no means of showing how the property was acquired, could not be vested in the clerk of the peace for the county. The Bill had been under the inspection of the authorities of the Home Office, who seemed satisfied, and had passed through the other House without much discussion; but if the Lord Chancellor thought it necessary, he would postpone the second reading.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR was obliged for this offer, as the Bill at first

Postage, &c., Scheme. 170 whether such Return is a correct repre- | furnishing such a statement as he asks sentation of the whole of the work per- for without referring to India. In reformed by such Judges respectively-ply to his second Question, I have to say said, that since he had given Notice of that the final decision as to the gauge to his Questions he had found, by a Return be adopted on the projected new railsupplemental to one delivered last Ses- ways in the Punjaub and Scinde was left sion, that the minimum of sittings was by the Secretary of State in Council to 88, and the maximum 216. Therefore, the Government of India; and I can he would not trouble the Attorney Ge- best convey its decision by reading an neral by putting the first Question that extract from a despatch from the Gostood in his name on the Paper. But vernment of India to the Secretary of perhaps the hon. and learned Gentle- State in Council, which I shall lay upon man would be kind enough to answer the Table of the Housethe last Question-namely, Whether there is any check upon or control over the appointment of Deputies by County Court Judges?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, in reply, said, the 9 & 10 Vict. c. 95, s. 20, provided that a deputy might be appointed in case of the illness or unavoidable absence of a County Court Judge. The cause of absence was to be entered on the Minutes of the Court. But if he was asked who was to determine whether a County Court Judge was ill or whether his absence was unavoidable, he should be obliged to say the County Court Judge himself was the judge of his own illness. There was a further power undoubtedly, with the approval of the Lord Chancellor, to appoint a deputy for a period not exceeding two months.

INDIA-LAHORE AND PESHAWUR
RAILWAY.-QUESTION.

"We consider an internal width of 6 ft. to be the least that can be conveniently taken for ordinary passenger and good's vehicles, and that for such a width of the vehicle a gauge of 3 ft. 3 in. seems likely to be most suitable. We are of opinion that by adopting this gauge we shall very maintenance, while the carrying power of the materially reduce the cost of construction and railways will be fully adequate to the probable requirements of the traffic. On such a gauge, with a light rail, rolling stock not sensibly heavier than that which has been proposed for the 2 ft. the event of an important increase of the traffic, 9 in. gauge may readily be employed; while, in vehicles of larger capacity, with heavier engines, if accompanied by the adoption of a heavier rail, will give the means of raising the carrying power of the lines to a standard very little, if at all, below that now attained on most European lines of the 4 ft. 8in. gauge.”

In reply to the hon. Gentleman's third Question, I have to say that there is no objection to laying the Correspondence for which he asks upon the Table of the House, if he will move for it.

POST OFFICE-NEW POSTAGE AND
MONEY ORDER SCHEMES.
QUESTION.

MR. RIDLEY asked the Under Secretary of State for India, Whether he can furnish a detailed Statement of the sums already expended by the Government of India upon the projected Line of Railway between Lahore and Pesha- MR. NEVILLE-GRENVILLE asked wur, showing the money spent on sala- the Postmaster General, When he prories, materials, and works respectively poses to bring in a Bill to carry out his from the time of the commencement of new Postage and Money Order schemes; the surveys; whether the question of and, whether he anticipates their becomthe gauge of the said Railway has beening Law before Easter? determined, and, if So, what gauge has MR. MONSELL said, in reply, that been selected, and why; and, whether the money order scheme would not rehe has any objection to lay upon the quire legislation, and preparations were Table of the House, Copies of the Rail- being made to carry it out with as little way Despatches from the Government delay as possible. As to the other of India to the Secretary of State, dated scheme, legislation was necessary in May 17, 1870 (Nos. 51 and 52), and of order to carry it out. A Bill was being any other subsequent Despatches or prepared for that purpose, and he should Correspondence on the same subject? have the pleasure of introducing it with. as little delay as possible. He could not, however, promise that it would be introduced before Easter.

MR. GRANT DUFF: In reply, Sir, to the hon. Gentleman's first Question, I have to say that we have no means of