Senator SYMINGTON. Suppose ARPA rejects it and the Joint Chiefs of Staff accept it; what happens then? General TRUDEAU. I don't have personal knowledge of these matters, as you understand, but I would say in that case they would both go and present it to Secretary McElroy, and he would make up his mind as to whether it should be constructed or not. In other words, Mr. Johnson cannot positively turn down a recommendation of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of his own volition. Senator SYMINGTON. Can the Joint Chiefs of Staff turn down a recommendation of Mr. Johnson? General TRUDEAU. Probably not. I don't know that. I would think, however, that except in basic research, or in very advanced research that has nothing to do with a particular system, the Secretary would definitely require that there be a military requirement for this prospective system. Of course, some of ARPA's money is for basic research. It has nothing to do with a particular vehicle, and in that field I think they have a lot of latitude. Senator SYMINGTON. Senator Dodd? Senator DODD. No, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator CASE. No questions. ARMY REQUESTS MORE AIRLIFT FROM JOINT CHIEFS Senator SYMINGTON. For many years the Army has requested more airlift through the Joint Chiefs of Staff. But the Army can't get an assurance of the airlift that it believes it needs. By majority vote. the Army is consistently turned down by the Joint Chiefs, and the claim can be made to the country that the Joint Chiefs don't approve of any more airlift. General TRUDEAU. Yes, sir. Senator SYMINGTON. And that would be true. But it sometimes leaves the impression that the Army itself does not believe it needs any more airlift. Now, in the case that you bring up here in the space field, we know that the services at times don't agree a hundred percent General TRUDEAU. Yes, sir. Senator SYMINGTON. As to who should handle the new weapons, whether they be missiles or space weapons, or what. APPLICATION TO ARPA MUST GO THROUGH JOINT CHIEFS I was asking those questions to find out what is the position of ARPA when the Army makes application to ARPA? As I understand it, you say that any application to ARPA must first go through the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is that correct? General TRUDEAU. To establish the military requirement. General TRUDEAU. If it is for a prospective weapons system, to use a broad term in distinction to just basic research in some field. ROLE OF DR. YORK Senator SYMINGTON. How would Dr. York enter into this picture, if at all? General TRUDEAU. If it is a weapons system, Dr. York probably wouldn't enter into it very much. Senator SYMINGTON. Isn't he supposed to be the head of research and engineering in the Department of Defense? General TRUDEAU. Yes, of research and engineering, technically speaking. Senator SYMINGTON. Doesn't everybody report to him— General TRUDEAU. We all do. Senator SYMINGTON. In research and engineering? General TRUDEAU. In research and engineering, so far as tecnnical or scientific channels are concerned; not for command channels, that is correct. Senator SYMINGTON. Do you say that he has no position in a research and development problem from the standpoint of decision? General TRUDEAU. What it amounts to is if it has to do with anything but space, we go to Dr. York. If it has to do with space, by and large we go to Mr. Johnson. Senator SYMINGTON. Don't you go to the Joint Chiefs? General TRUDEAU. For the requirement, yes; for the requirement, that is right. But in dealing with the technical aspects of the problem we go to Dr. York or Mr. Johnson. Senator SYMINGTON. Do you know of any case that you have gone to the Joint Chiefs for a space requirements decision under your command? General TRUDEAU. I would like to ask General Beach if he has got a comment on that. TESTIMONY OF MAJ. GEN. DWIGHT E. BEACH, DIRECTOR OF GUIDED MISSILES AND SPECIAL WEAPONS, OFFICE, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR MILITARY OPERATIONS, DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY 1 General BEACH. The requirements that were sent up that ARPA is now working on Senator SYMINGTON. Let me repeat my question, General. Do you know of any case where the Army has gone with a space research and development program to the Joint Chiefs of Staff? General BEACH. Yes, sir. Senator SYMINGTON. Can you tell the committee or is that a classified matter? General BEACH. The current projects that ARPA is working on went through the Joint Chiefs of Staff to get the official military requirements stated such as some of the satellite programs that are going on right now. Senator SYMINGTON. Originated by the Army? General BEACH. That were originated by the Army. They eventually ended up with the Joint Chiefs. 1 Biography of Gen. Beach is on p. 621. LINE OF AUTHORITY AND RESPONSIBILITY Senator SYMINGTON. I am just trying to clarify this line of authority and responsibility. I think General Trudeau said that if it was orginated by the Army it went to the Joint Chiefs first. General BEACH. It can go up through the military channels through the Joint Chiefs or through the secretarial channels. They both have to get into it before a final decision is made. Senator SYMINGTON. When you call ARPA you call that the secretarial channel? General BEACH. Yes, sir. Senator SYMINGTON. So then as I understand it, it does not necessarily go to the Joint Chiefs first. It may go to both ARPA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff simultaneously or it may go first to either one you decide on. Will you comment on that? General BEACH. The timing is a little different depending on the particular situation I would say but it gets to both of them and they both have to act on it. Senator SYMINGTON. This problem can be multiplied by a factor of three before it ever gets into the civilian aspects. Isn't that correct? General BEACH. That's right. Senator SYMINGTON. Does the problem have to go to the Joint Chiefs before it goes to ARPA, or does it have to go to ARPA before it goes to the Joint Chiefs, or does it have to go to them both together or how does that operate? General BEACH. I don't think it has to go to either one before the other frankly. Senator SYMINGTON. Then what is the regulation or the directive on it? General BEACH. Of course, it all ends up with the Secretary of Defense. Senator SYMINGTON. I know where it ends up. I am just asking you what the timing and channels are before it ends up. General BEACH. By the time it gets there for final approval so far as I know there is no prescribed directive which says that it will go through the Joint Chiefs first or through ARPA first. Senator SYMINGTON. By the time it gets where? General BEACH. For final approval. Senator SYMINGTON. Where? General BEACH. To the Secretary of Defense. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE GIVES FINAL APPROVAL ON ALL ITEMS Senator SYMINGTON. Do all these items go to the Secretary of Defense for final approval? General BEACH. All the major ones do I am sure. Senator SYMINGTON. Does he delegate any of those decisions, and if so, to whom? General BEACH. I am sure he has delegated some of them. He has the final responsibility, though just how he operates and what he has delegated specifically as to a final decision without any reference back to Mr. McElroy, I do not know. Senator SYMINGTON. Yes. I don't think that was a fair question to ask you. I withdraw it. I withdraw it. Thank you very much, General. MILITARY ENVIRONMENT IN SPACE DURING NEXT DECADE Mr. SMITH. I believe this question might be directed to General Beach. What do you consider to be the military environment in space during the next decade? General BEACH. I consider that it is going to be very competitive between us and our friends on the other side. There is going to be a tremendous increase in the number of space objects of various types. There will be undoubtedly manned space vehicles in the 1960-70 decade. It will grow in its defensive value to the United States and it will have an increasingly great impact on our military capability both on land, sea, and in the air. ARMY'S OPERATIONAL ROLE IN SPACE Mr. SMITH. What would you say was the Army's operational role in space? General BEACH. The Army has some definite requirements, role, and mission in space. We have a tremendous capability as we have demonstrated in the past by the list of Army firsts, such as the first penetration of space, which was an Army project back in 1949, the first satellite which took us off the hook as far as the free world was concerned vis-a-vis the Russians, and the first lunar satellite. As we go out further in space, there are definitely going to be functions that are actually Army. We have a tremendous capability in our Corps of Engineers, in our Signal Corps, and the Army's capability in my opinion at least should be used. With our long experience in seizing and holding land and defending land areas, this capability will unquestionably in the future have its application on other land areas not on the earth. Therefore we must use satellites, space vehicles, and offensive and defensive space weapons in the accomplishment of whatever mission the future brings. I think our role is going to increase tremendously all the time using what we have right now. ARMY'S OPERATIONAL REQUIREMENTS Mr. SMITH. You say there will be some that are peculiarly Army. What are the Army's operational requirements? General BEACH. Well, we are in an area of explosive space technology. We definitely recognize the probability of military operations on or in the vicinity of the moon and beyond that out into outer space, and we must be prepared to participate in these operations and in the space between earth and the moon. We also can use space to support ground operations on the earth. As we get more information, we can better assess just what these military implications are. We have a good-sized number of specific space requirements. I could give you a much more detailed answer in a closed session though. Senator SYMINGTON. I would like to ask one further question, if I may. General BEACH. Yes, sir. Senator SYMINGTON. To explore this question of space organization, do you see any way that you can draw a line between the three services in any way comparable to this 200-mile limitation of range on ground-to-ground missiles, which was just discussed? General BEACH. No, sir. Senator SYMINGTON. A line marking off neatly what each service does in space? General BEACH. No, sir. PROBLEMS KEEPING CHANNELS AND FREQUENCIES CLEAR IN General TRUDEAU. No, sir; you can't. Even though we are having problems in the communications field in trying to keep the channels and frequencies clear, we found even in the Army between the firing of Explorer IV and Explorer V that because of the frequency we had to use on Explorer V that we were limited to the times when we could launch it or else it would be coming around at the wrong time and we would be receiving from Explorer IV. And in our Pioneer IV, which is the shot, the recent one past the moon now orbiting the sun, some people wanted to know why we didn't use solar batteries in it, particularly if it is going around the sun and give it a long life as far as the transmitter and receiver. The answer was relatively simple. Even at this stage we can't start cluttering up space with a lot of unusable signals that are being flashed back to earth and would be up there forever. So we didn't put a solar battery in it. We put a battery in that would last 72 hours which is what we wanted and we got 90 hours out of it. But these are the problems and this is why somebody has to pull this together the same as NSA which you are familiar with and which I won't go into for any of the other unified efforts that are necessary. Senator SYMINGTON. NSA? General TRUDEAU. NSA. Senator SYMINGTON. What is that? General TRUDEAU. National Security Agency; I just use that as a term without going into it too deeply but it accents the necessity for coordination of efficiency and economy. feel Senator SYMINGTON. To be sure the record is clear, do you that it would be difficult if not impossible to decide which service has a position in space as against the other services at this time? General BEACH. That is correct, sir. Senator SYMINGTON. Putting it another way: It would be impossible for any service to operate without recognition that part of its mission is in the space field-is that a fair statement? General BEACH. That is correct. PROCEDURES ESTABLISHED FOR RADIO FREQUENCIES Senator SYMINGTON. Could I ask what procedures have been established for coordinating radio frequencies, General Trudeau? General TRUDEAU. Of course, in this case that is one of the benefits of ARPA, since ARPA has gotten into the picture. They can assign the frequencies that are going into these Talos guidance systems and what have you, and that has helped in a problem that could have become more aggravated if each service was going out completely |