Lord Chancellor. Shew me one of them; one, let me hear one.

Rogers. I remembered myself, that amongst so many I were best to shew one, and said, I will shew you

one.

Lord Chancellor. Let me hear that, let me hear that.

Rogers. The bishop of Rome and his Church say, read, and sing all that they do in their congregations in Latin, which is directly and plainly against the first to the Corinthians, the 14th chapter.

Lord Chancellor. I deny that, I deny that that is against the word of God. Let me see you prove that: how prove you that?

Rogers. Then I began to say the text from the beginning of the chapter: to speak with tongues, said I, is to speak with a strange tongue, as Latin or Greek, &c. and so to speak is not to speak unto men, but unto God. But ye speak in Latin, which is a strange tongue, wherefore ye speak not unto men, but unto God. This must be granted, that ye speak not unto men, but unto God.

Lord Chancellor. Well, then, is it vain unto men? Rogers. No, not in vain: "For one man speaketh in one tongue, and another in another tongue, and all well."

Lord Chancellor. Nay, I will prove then that he speaketh neither unto God nor unto men, but unto the wind.

Rogers. I was willing to have declared how and after what sort these two texts do agree, (for they must agree, they be both the sayings of the Holy Ghost, spoken by the Apostle Paul,) as, to wit, "to speak not to men, but unto God," and to speak unto the wind:' and so I would have gone forward with the proof of my matter begun, but here arose a noise and a confusion. Then said the Lord Chancellor,

To speak unto God, and not

Lord Chancellor. unto God were impossible.

Rogers. I will prove them possible.

Lord Haward. Nay, saith my Lord William Haward to my Lord Chancellor, now will I bear you witness that he is out of the way. For he granteth first, that they which speak in a strange speech speak unto God; and now he saith the contrary, that they speak neither to God nor to man.

Rogers. I have not granted or said, (turning me to my Lord Haward,) as you report. I have alleged the one text, and now I am come to the other: they must agree, and I can make them to agree. But as

for you, you understand not the matter.

Lord Haward. I understand so much, that it is not possible. This is a point of sophistry, quoth Secretary Bourn.

Lord Chancellor. Then the Lord Chancellor began to tell the Lord Haward, that when he was in High Dutchland, they at Halle, which had before prayed and used their service in Dutch, began then to turn part into Latin, and part into Dutch.

Worcester. Yea, and Wittemburg too.

Rogers. Yea, (but I could not be heard for their noise,) in an university, where men for the most part understood the Latin: and yet not all in Latin. And I would have told the order, and have gone forward both to have answered my Lord, and to have proved the thing that I had taken in hand: but perceiving their talk and noise to be too noisome, I was fain to think this in my heart, suffering them in the meanwhile to talk one of them one thing and another another. Alas! neither will these men hear me if I speak, neither yet will they suffer me to write. There is no remedy, but let them alone, and commit the matter to God. Yet I began to go forward, and said, that I would make the texts to agree, and to

prove my purpose well enough.

Lord Chancellor. No, no, thou canst prove nothing by the Scripture. The Scripture is dead: it must have a lively expositor.

Rogers. No, the Scripture is alive. But let me go forward with my purpose.

Worcester. All heretics have alleged the Scriptures for them, and therefore we must have a lively expositor for them.

Rogers. Yea, all heretics have alleged the Scriptures for them; but they were confuted by the Scriptures, and by none other expositor.

Worcester. But they would not confess that they were overcome by the Scriptures, I am sure of that.

Rogers. I believe that: and yet were they overcome by them, and in all the councils they were disputed with and overthrown by the Scriptures. And here I would have declared how they ought to proceed in these days, and so have come again to my purpose, but it was impossible: for one asked one thing, another said another, so that I was fain to hold my peace and let them talk. And even when I would have taken hold of my proof, the Lord Chancellor bade to prison with me again; and, Away, away, said he, we have more to talk withal: if I would not be reformed, (so he termed it,) away, away. Then up I stood, for I had kneeled all the while.

Then Sir Richard Southwell, who stood by in a window, said to me, Thou wilt not burn in this gear when it cometh to the purpose, I know well that.

Rogers. Sir, I cannot tell, but I trust to my Lord God yet-lifting up mine eyes to heaven.

Bishop of Ely. Then my Lord of Ely told me much of the Queen's Majesty's pleasure and meaning, and set it out with large words, saying, that she took them that would not receive the bishop of Rome's supremacy to be unworthy to have her mercy, &c.

Rogers. I said I would not refuse her mercy, and

yet I never offended her in all my life; and that I besought her Grace and all their Honours to be good to me, reserving my conscience.

Divers spake at once. No; quoth they then, (a great sort of them, and specially Secretary Bourn,) a married priest, and have not offended the law?

Rogers. I said I had not broken the Queen's law, nor yet any point of the law of the realm therein, for I married where it was lawful.

Divers at once, Where was that? said they; thinking that to be unlawful in all places.

Rogers. In Dutchland. And if ye had not here in England made an open law that Priests might have had wives, I would never have come home again; for I brought a wife and eight children with me; which thing ye might be sure that I would not have done, if the laws of the realm had not permitted it before.

Then there was a great noise, some saying, that I should come too soon with such a sort; that I should find a sour coming of it; and some one sort and some another: and one said, (I could not well perceive who,) that there was never a catholic man or country that ever granted that a priest might have a wife.

I said, the catholic church never denied marriage to Priests, nor yet to any other man and therewith was I going out of the chamber, the sergeant which brought me thither hanging on me by the arm.

Worcester. Then the Bishop of Worcester turned his face towards me, and said, that I wist not where that church was or is.

Rogers. I said, yes, that I could tell where it was