. MR. SHARPE, thought the Convention should adjourn. No gentleman, not even the President, could, at the moment, and without reflection, select thirteen suitable men for this important committee. GEN, ROOT hoped the gentleman from Queens (Mr. King) would withdraw his motion for an adjournment, until the question should be settled as to the manner in which this committee is to be appointed. He wished the question to be taken on the motion of the gentleman from New-York (Mr. Fairlie) and trusted that it would be rejected. It would be difficult, if not impossible, if the committee were chosen by ballot, to have them properly distributed through the state. The scattering votes might occasion the election, for instance, of four or five from the city of New-York. MR. KING withdrew his motion for adjournment; and the question was taken on Mr. Fairlie's motion, which was negatived. MR. YOUNG spoke in favour of reconsidering the resolution appointing a committee of thirteen. He presumed that such a committee was intended merely to designate the heads of the proposed amendments to the constitution. After that committee have reported, their report will be before the Convention. We shall have to deliberate upon it, and adopt, amend, or reject it. While this committee of thirteen are engaged in digesting their report, the Convention will have nothing to do. He would therefore propose a reconsideration of the proceedings in relation to this subject. He thought that such a loss of time might be saved by referring the constitution at once to a committee of the whole. MR. KING opposed the motion, on the ground that it would defeat the very object of the resolution that had just been passed. The object of the motion, which he had had the honour of submitting to the Convention, was, to take away from such propositions as might be made, all imputations of personal character; and that the measures proposed might appear to be, as he trusted they would be, the measures of the house. GEN. ROOT. I hope, sir, the motion of the honourable gentleman from Saratoga (Mr. Young) will prevail; and that the constitution will be referred to a committee of the whole. The object, I presume, in making the committee so numerous, was to embrace within it as much wisdom and experience as possible; there would doubtless be accumulated a greater mass of wisdom in a committee of thirteen, than in an ordinary committee of six or seven; but it would be an ill compliment to suppose, that an equal mass of wisdom would be found even in a committee of thirteen, as in this whole body. I have objections to this committee being instructed to point out what parts of the constitution need amendment. If the committee should be so fortunate, as to agree on the subjects of amendment, their recommendations would then be submitted to the Convention, and the members would in some measure be tramelled by the report. Unavailing would be the efforts of any gentleman to resist such an accumulated force. Sir, it would be delegating to thirteen members the power of pointing out what parts of the constitution want amending. But if the constitution be referred to a committee of the whole, each member may have a proposition to make in the same manner as a committee of thirteen. Each one takes it up, and it is subsequently discussed and acted upon by all; and if this should be done with deliberation, much time may be saved in our future discussions. Should propositions thus submitted pass in committee of the whole, any gentleman would think it unavailing to move an amendment. In my judgment, therefore, the true course will be, to refer the constitution to a committee of the whole. In that way resolutions may be offered by any gentleman, in favour of such amendments, as he may deem proper. If such propositions should bo crude and indigested, they might then be referred to select committees. Again: This committee of thirteen might find it difficult to agree among themselves, as to what should, and what should not, be reported, as subjects for amendment. And what are the other members to be about all this time? Peradventure, a week might be spent by this committee, before they would be ready, with all their industry, to submit the result of their labours to the Convention; and in the mean time those who are not on this committee will have nothing to do. We can all be engaged in committee of the whole, and all profit by the wise suggestions made by gentlemen in favour of their respective propositions. But whilst the thirteen are deliberating, we lose our time, and all the wise suggestions which might be made, by the individual members of the committee; and in my judgment, it would be throwing away our time very unprofitably; as the report of the committee will not express the sentiments of this Convention. It will be merely an expression of the will of a majority of thirteen, which will probably be seven gentlemen; and these are to govern this whole Convention. Unquestionably, the honourable member, who moved that this committee be appointed, will be one of that number; then, if he and six others should agree on the propositions to be submitted to the Convention for their consideration, I should consider my humble efforts exerted in vain, to resist such a force: I should shrink from the undertaking. I believe that the honorable member from Saratoga moved that the business allotted to this committee of thirteen, be submitted to a committee of the whole. I hope the former resolution may be reconsidered and amended agreeably to his proposition. The motion to reconsider was lost; and the Convention adjourned. FRIDAY, AUGUST 31, 1821. The Convention was called to order at 11 o'clock. Prayer by the Rev. Mr. LACEY. Minutes read and approved. The President announced the committee of thirteen, as directed by the reso lution of Mr. King, adopted yesterday. They are as follows: Mr. King, of the county of Queens. Mr. Sanford, of the county of New-York. Mr. Tallmadge, of the county of Dutchess. Mr. Kent, of the county of Albany. Mr. Pitcher, of the counties of Washington and Warren, Mr. N. Williams, of the county of Oneida. MR. WHEELER moved an adjournment till 3 o'clock. The committee will probably, be ready to make some report this afternoon. MR. YOUNG thought the committee would be able to report in an hour. Their duty was only to report distinct propositions. He thought they had better adjourn till 12 o'clock, and moved to amend the motion of Mr. Wheeler accordingly. MR. ROOT. Do the gentlemen think that this committee of thirteen members, no two of whom, probably, have ever spoken together upon the subjects to come before them, will be able to report in an hour? I think not. The Convention had better adjourn till 4 o'clock-after dinner. Moved accordingly; and carried. Adjourned. AFTERNOON—A O'CLOCK. The President having taken the chair, MR. KING, from the committee appointed to consider and report in what manner it would be expedient to take up the business of this Convention, presented the following resolutions: 1st. Resolved, That so much of the constitution as relates to the legislative department, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. 2d. Resolved, That so much of the constitution as relates to the executive department, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations and amendments therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. 3d. Resolved, That so much of the constitution as relates to the judicial department, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of mak ing any, and if any, what alterations or amendments therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. 4th. Resolved, That so much of the constitution as relates to the council of revision, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient, 5th. Resolved, That so much of the constitution as relates to the power of ap pointment to office, and the tenure thereof, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amendments therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. 6th. Resolved, That so much of the constitution as relates to the right of suffrage and qualifications of persons to be elected, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or amend. ments therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. 7th. Resolved, That so much of the constitution as relates to the rights and privileges of the citizens and members of this state, together with the act entitled an act concerning the rights of the citizens of this state, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations and amendments therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. 8th. Resolved, That all the parts of the constitution not embraced in the preceding resolutions, be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what alterations or further provisions therein, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. 9th. Resolved, That a committee be appointed to enquire into the expediency of establishing the commencement of the legislative year; also, whether any, and if any, what alterations ought to be made in the term for which any elective officer may be elected. 10th. Resolved, That it be referred to a committee to take into consideration the expediency of making any, and if any, what provisions for future alterations or amendments to the constitution of this state, and to report such amendments as they may deem expedient. The resolutions having been read, Mr. Root moved that the question be taken on the whole at once. CHIEF JUSTICE SPENCER moved that they be read, and the question taken upon them separately; which course was adopted, and the resolutions all passed in the affirmative. GEN. ROOT moved that the several committees consist of seven members. Carried. GEN. ROOT submitted the following resolution. Resolved, That the committee on the legislative department be instructed to inquire into the expediency of providing in the constitution, that no law increasing the pay of members of the legislature, shall take effect till after the expiration of the legislative year in which it shall have been passed. Some little discussion arose upon the manner in which this resolution should be disposed of, and it was finally laid on the table till to-morrow. The Convention then adjourned until 1 o'clock P. M. of to-morrow, in order to give the President time to make a suitable selection of members of the several committees. SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 1, 1821. Prayer by the Rev. Mr. DAVIS. The Convention was then called to order, at 1 o'clock, and the minutes of yesterday were read and approved. MR. P. R. LIVINGSTON. Before you proceed, Mr. President, to execute the important trust recently imposed on you; that of selecting committees to embrace the different subjects selected for them respectively, I shall offer a resolution, the object of which will be, to augment and increase those committees. When I approach this Convention, I recognize character, wealth, talent, and patriotism. I know, sir, that I am addressing the majesty of democracy in its delegated character; and on all occasions, I shall attach to it that respect, which so dignified an assemblage of citizens will always command. I know that we are about to take into consideration a subject, which has for its aim the public good; and under the auspices of that Being, who directs and presides over the destinies of man, I trust we shall be guided to a course of action, which will have for its object, the interest, honor, happiness, and prosperity of this commonwealth. In the appointment of the committee recommended by my honorable friend from Queens, there was not much importance attached to the resolution; but filled up as these committees have been in point of numbers, there is much importance growing out of it. The Convention have now settled the mode and manner in which we are to proceed in determining the vital principles of the constitution, which are to be submitted to the consideration of this body. Is it not wise to avail ourselves of the talent and ability of this Convention, by increasing the number of these committees? By the introduction of a resolution yesterday, which confines the number of each committee to seven, you now have but seventy members engaged; fifty-six are necessarily to be unemployed until the report of some of these committees shall be presented to this Convention. It is in the chamber, where information is to be had; it is not on the floor of the Convention where talents may be opposed, and eloquence give a wrong direction. There are many men of fine minds, who do not possess floor talents; and by the course which has been adopted we shall be deprived of the benefits of their counsel, of their wisdom and prudence. Is it not better that every member be attached to some one of these committees, where others may avail themselves of his information, or where he may obtain such information as he may need? It will not, nor can it be said, that those committees will be too numerous. I believe that in a sister state they have adopted the wisest course in submitting the constitution to a committee of the whole. You cannot compare the proccedings of this body with ordinary legislative proceedings-the latter, in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, are local in their nature, while the former have no other boundary than the marginal limits, which terminate the jurisdiction of its power. If this resolution shall prevail, (and there can be no other objection to it than the delay of a single day) we shall then all be employed in the business before us. No man has more regard for the most rigid economy than myself; and I would not procrastinate the proceedings of this body, or expend a single cent of the public money, beyond what is necessary. I believe, sir, the plan proposed by the resolution will not be the means of retarding our progress; but by uniting the wisdom and talents of all the members, the business of the Convention will be expedited. If the number of five be added to each of the committees, it will leave a fraction of six members, who may be disposed of as the importance of particular committees may make it necessary. I therefore, with these views, tenacious of them because impressed upon me by a regard to the public interest, to promote which we are here assembled, offer the following resolution : Resolved, That the respective committees appointed to report on the several rts of the constitution referred to them, be augmented, and that the number of ve be added to each committee. This resolution was subsequently modified, so that six should be added to the first five committees, and five to the remaining ones, which would embrace all the members. CHIEF JUSTICE SPENCER disapproved of the course proposed by the gentleman from Dutchess. It would cause considerable delay in the proceedings, since another day or two would be consumed in filling up the committees, and by being rendered too numerous, their proceedings would be retarded. He believed it to be unusual in legislative proceedings, to appoint an even number of members on committees, as they might be divided in opinion, and a report thereby be delayed or prevented. The committees appeared to him sufficiently numerous for all the purposes intended. If he understood the duty assigned them, it was merely to present to the Convention, in a condensed form, the subjects for deliberation, which would form topics of discussion in committee of the whole. The gentleman from Dutchess erred in supposing that these several committees would assemble together, and discuss the subjects referred to them --this would be the business of the whole Convention after the reports of the several committees were made. On the whole, he thought an increase in the number of the members composing the committees unnecessary, and therefore hoped the resolution would not be adopted. MR. LIVINGSTON replied, that he must have been strangely misunderstood, or be very limited in his views, if he had said any thing from which it could be inferred that he supposed all the committees were to assemble together; the man who could have supposed such an absurdity, was unfit to be in this Convention. But he did suppose, and he hoped to convince the honourable gentlenan who last spoke, that there would be very great advantages growing out of an increase of these committees. They are not appointed to examine subjects of an ordinary concern; but the great charter of our rights will be laid before them. Every member comes with views, correct or incorrect, of that charter; and will my honourable friend pretend to say, that there is not more wisdom in twelve than in seven? And will not these twelve by a discussion of the topics submitted to them, gain much important information, and be better qualified to act on the subject hereafter? He asked how he was to obtain his information? Suppose that honourable gentleman was chairman of a committee on the subject of the judiciary, and that he should come into committee of the whole, fortified with strong reasons, and information derived from private deliberation, he would in such case enjoy a decided advantage over others; and it would be extremely difficult for those, who did not possess floor talents, to raise this or that objection, although they might be men of sound understandings. He would ask that honourable gentleman, how fifty or more men were to employ their time, while the committees were preparing their reports? Would it not be better that they should be associated with the several committees in their chambers, where they might be acquiring information, which would enable them to act more advisedly on the subjects, which will hereafter come before them? We cannot, it is true, be present with all the committees—would to God we could. Another objection raised is, that the committees will be an even number that is an imaginary difficulty; it is one that will not be realized. Would any member of such a committee take it upon himself to say, that no report should be made unless such as to suit his own views? It would be made by the chairman, although others might not assent to it. He said we did not come here to exercise feelings of passion, or those feelings which would grow out of intemperate discussion. He presumed it was the wish of every delegate to bring the subject fairly bcfore the convention; to discuss it with moderation, and give it all that dispassionate consideration, that its importance might require, before it is submitted for the decision of that power, which created us, and to which we are answerable. Another difficulty which has been suggested is, that the President would belong to one of those committees, which he thought would be improper. He concluded with hoping, that his resolution would be well considered, before the Convention should decide on it, as he felt much solicitude that it might be adopted. COL. YOUNG remarked, that the committees would deliberate out of the ordinary hours of sitting, and would not break in upon the regular proceedings of the Convention. He was rather disinclined to add to the number of these com |